Hello, complete beginner!

[Doug]

Hello there, just new to this.

Due to various reason, I decided recently to get some goldfish, so I bought the tank, filter, weeds, ornaments etc etc, and at the end, when talking to the guy in the shop about keeping the tank clean, he showed me a tank full of fan tails, with, at the bottom, a single, small, Japanese Weather Loach.

After maturing the water in the new tank, I now have 4 goldfish and the Loach.

Now, whilst I have a book on the goldfish, I have no info on the Loach, hence why I'm here, to try and learn. I have already learned from reading through various bits here and elsewhere that they happen to be very hardy (good) and like to dig at the bottom (not so good).

Problem is that, on purchasing the tank, it came with gravel, and large bits at that!, so, I need to know what the best product would be for him/her.

Naturally, I'll ask at the pet shop, but are there any recommendations out there please??

It had occurred to me several times that, on observing him/her moving vertically up and down the side of the tank that, on hitting the bottom, the gravel may be causing problems, so any help will do, thanks!

Also, it is a 21 liter tank holding the 5 of them (the largest amount recommended for that type). Is this ok, or will I need something larger??


Thanks.

[Doug]

Oh no oh no OH NO!!

After writing the above, I went down to see it. I couldn't find it anywhere, even in it's usual hiding places.

I was stumped until I looked about on the floor, and there it was. It seems my Mum, on feeding them all last night, didn't notice it jumping out (quite how is another question).
The tank has a lid, so it must have happened last night when I wasn't around.

There it was, all covered in fluff off the carpet and dog hairs.

I just hope it's ok - it wriggled when I picked it up, so here's hoping, but it's floating upside down in the tank currently.

[Doug]

Update - it seems to be moving, albeit sporadically.

A question which can someone please answer!

- the filter is still on, and every so often, it gets caught in the flow from it and is sent round in circles, occasionally banging slightly against the side of the tank (which I'm worried about in case it injures it'self).

Is this really ok for it??


Please, I need to know what's best to do ASAP!

[janma]

The tank is WAAAY too small. Here we recommend atleast 400-500L for goldfish. You shouldn't keep any of those fish in that tank, it would work for snail or shrimp, but definetly NO to keeping fish in it.

[Dutch]

Here we recommend atleast 400-500L for goldfish.

Some goldfish you have there.

[janma]

Thats the recommendation you get here, in books and online. I can understand it, they do get big (20-30cm) and should be kepts in groups of atleast 5 fish. Definetly not to be kept in small bowls, sadly thats the picture people get when hearing the word "goldfish".

[Dutch]

Yes, that's the picture I always have.. or used to have, since you pointed this out. Just checked fishbase and they list goldfish as having a maximum recorded length of 59cm. That IS some goldfish.
Funny how strong these misconceptions sometimes are.

Thanks for straightening that out.

[shari2]

Standard recommendation round here is 20g per goldfish minimum which equates to about 75 liters per fish. If you have 5 that's about 375L. Pretty close.

Considering that goldfish are massive waste producers the larger the tank the better.

[KLKelly]

Ouch - a new tank and an overstocked one Your water is toxic by end of day for sure. Your loach jumped to get to escape the water.

Goldfish need 10 gallons minimum for a fancy variety and more for single tails.

If you do your research you will learn a lot. Fish store people are in the business to sell stuff. They will sell you ten goldfish and a bowl if you wanted it.

Here are some articles:
Goldfish care sheet: http://thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishBasics.html
What quality - your tank probably is too small to cycle and you would have to do very large water changes each day every day as long as you have one fish in it:
http://thegab.org/Articles/WaterQuality.html
And finally what the cycle is. EVERY fish keeper needs to know this:
http://thegab.org/Articles/WaterQualityCycling.html

You have to have a goldfish to know how bad the water gets. Even in understocked fully cycled tanks with overfiltration I am doing a 30-50% water change each week depending on nitrate levels which I aim to keep below 30 or 40.

[Doug]

Thanks, you've just made me feel about 10 times worse.

It isn't a bowl, and 5 max is what it said on the bumf with the tank.


Still, thank you for that info, looks like I've been FAR too naive here.


Loach never recovered properly and I'm pretty annoyed at myself now as you can imagine!


What a start to make, sorry.

[shari2]

Don't feel too bad Doug. Many people have had horrendous beginnings. The fish store folk will let you buy anything you want (most of them it seems, at least) and when it all goes south they'll sell you more stuff to fix it.

You're doing the right thing looking for help and answers. As for their 5g info? They should be locked up in a bathtub with 5 other people.

[Doug]

Thanks, your website is VERY apt Sharl2!

Annoying thing is, that on the day I start to find things out about the 3 and a half inch long craeter, it goes and kicks the bucket on me. Typical, eh?

Flushing it down the toilet just seemed, wrong, somehow, so In a fit of irony, I buried it in the garden instead.

I should have done my homework beforehand anyway, I admit, but I took the advice of the pet shop instead - I mean, after all, they look after fish constantly, and they had been looking after the loach, so surely they would have known a few things. Wouldn't they??
As they say, it's better to make mistakes and learn from them, but when lives are at stake or lost, it suddenly seems much more hollow a sentiment.

Anyway, thanks, I'll wait before making my next move Loachwise, but I'm being ultra ultra observant/ paranoid with the goldfish now!


You have to realise that I am the type of person who wont even kill insects on principle (within reason of course, but it has to be pretty extreme), so doing that to the Loach , doesn't make me feel very good at all!

[shari2]

Fish do make good fertilizer...but so does used tank water. It's the high nitrates. (which we hope not to have and eliminate with the water changes)

[KLKelly]

I'm sorry I didn't mean to make you feel bad. I'm just so mad at the local fish stores not the people who buy the fish. I'm a huge goldfish lover (and loach) lover and I have a hard time thinking of the fish going through what the stores know they will go through and they don't say anything! I wish I had made that clearer

I rescued a goldfish two years ago and I did everything wrong. I bought a good sized tank - he was a big fish - but after spending a hundred dollars on medication I finally found a site that told me about the cycle. He acted so sick and every fin was all burned from the ammonia. My ph is 8.3 and my ammonia level was 4.0 when I finally went and got tests. Not once did the LFS tell me about doing water changes - they actually said not to.

I learned at his expense and I still feel really guilty. But after two years I love everything about this hobby and couldn't imagine not having them in my life. I have three fancy goldfish tanks and an empty tank waiting for loaches. My well water sucks so I have to wait until November - redoing the mortgage to allow for a home treatment water system. I love this forum - they know everything there is and just looking at the pictures everyone posts is amazing.

Again - please accept my apology. Them darn fish stores just kill me.

Don't let it discourage you. I'm sure with research and help from forums like LOL you will be hooked.

[janma]

You should take the goldfish back to the shop and educate the person working there. Fishstores seems to be the same all around the world. Few can be trusted, money talks. We should all live in Peterborough

We all make mistakes, but some don't care and its a good thing you do. So don't let this get you down