Marge vs Stripes

[piggy4]

WOW! superb vid Emma . no wonder you said watch the vid with the sound down , it wont be long before some plonker mistakes the noise of the camera for the Clowns clicking !

[Emma Turner]

Thank you very much for all the lovely comments.

jones57742 - Marge is 12" TL (total length) and Stripes is about 11-11.5". I rehomed them back in 2005 when I was fortunate enough to receive a tip-off that someone had taken them in to another shop for rehoming. I am so glad that this happened, not only because they did not end up in a tank that was too small for them, but they give me so much enjoyment and have intergrated into my shoal of 35 (ish) other clowns really well. Some of my older clowns have been with me for 14 years or so and the loaches that are smaller than Marge & Stripes range in size from 3" up to 9-10" TL. I've not seen any possible spawning behaviour between Marge & Stripes, the fight on video was one of their dominance struggles - Marge is the boss (Alpha loach) and Stripes aspires to hold that position himself. Most of the time Marge is a gentle giant, but if Stripes starts anything with her, she soon puts him in his place!

Emma

[jones57742]

Emma:

Three last questions (maybe).

Exactly what are the dimensions of this tank in which Marge, Stripes and 35 other medium to large clown loaches enjoy themselves and what in the world do you use for filtration?

Do the larger clowns aggravate the smaller clowns (hence distress and slower growth)?

I have only been back into fish keeping for approximately two years (subsequent to approximately 40 years with no fish).
How in the world did the pet stores get into selling the small but pretty clowns which they have an abundance of instead of selling like zebras which are not as distinctively marked as clowns but which are very pretty fish?

TR

BTW Emma:

Until I was reviewing various articles prior to this post I did not know that I was speaking to an international publisher!

[Emma Turner]

Hi again jones57742,

The 35+ clown loaches live in a 1000 litre aquarium (which is about 265 US gallons). For the filtration, we have 2 x Eheim Professionel 3's which hold 25 litres of water each and are rated for a tank size of 1200 litres each: http://www.eheim.de/eheim/inhalte/index ... 27575_ehen, plus 1 x Eheim Professionel II 2028 on the tank (rated for 600 litres), plus 3 powerheads, one of which is a very powerful Tunze Turbelle Stream 6100 (the output is 12000 litres per hour). We also have a UV steriliser mounted on one of the filter returns. We use solely RO water for water changes as our local water is extremely hard and alkaline. In the winter we carry out 3 partial water changes per week and in the summer months when our RO unit is producing more water, we carry these out almost daily. Also, in the winter, when we can't do as many water changes, we make regular use of a Nitraking unit which hooks up to one of the powerheads and absorbs nitrates from the water as it passes through. This unit is then easily recharged on our marine system at work and can then be re-used on the clown loach tank.

The larger clowns and the smaller clowns get on just fine and it is an incredible sight to see such a huge group of them shoaling and playing about of an evening. However, during the day, the tank looks quite empty! Many of the clowns in the tank are ones we have adopted when they have outgrown people's tanks. These were not bought from us - we make it clear just how big they get and what size tank and equipment is needed - but people do tend to bring them to us for rehoming even if they were purchased elsewhere. We are pretty much at full capacity with our tank at home, and so any others that are bought back to us will be offered to the experienced fishkeepers who we have listed in our 'fish book' that have their own XL tanks and are after big clowns to join their shoals. When rehoming fish, you never really know all their history and it is possible that they were previously stunted in an aquarium that was too small for them. One of the groups we once rehomed contained 7 clowns that had been kept together for some years. These ranged in size from 2.5" up to around 6.5" and although all of them have grown, the very little one has never got any larger than 3" in our tank after some years, so it seems quite likely that it was stunted at some stage prior to us adopting him/her. But in the past there has also been talk of the Alpha loach excreting some type of hormone into the water which supresses the growth of the subordinate fish. Whether this is true or not probably needs further scientific investigation.

With regards to fighting, this only tends to occur between clowns of the same sort of size. Usually it is just 2 fish involved, but I have witnessed a 3 way fight between some of the smaller specimens in my tank before now. I think there is a genuine hierarchy in the tank which starts with Marge at the top, is followed by Stripes and goes all the way down to last place to the very little clown loaches (3") that are in there. It makes me laugh to think some of them are fighting it out over 31st and 32nd place etc!

As for why most shops tend to stock the large-growing clown loaches and not more of the smaller botiid species.....probably because they are not very well educated as to the requirements of the species, and also clowns are eyecatching and no doubt sell well if they don't disclose to the customer exactly what a commitment they are. Thankfully not all shops are like that, but I do wish more would stock a choice of smaller loaches such as Botia striata, B. rostrata and B. histrionica as a standard, rather than tank after tank of 1" clowns.

Emma

P.S. I'm not a publisher, just a fishkeeper who enjoys writing and has been fortunate enough to have some of my work published.

[mickthefish]

iv'e watched your video upteen times now Emma, it's a great watch.
piggy4 came round last night to see my new fishes, so i thought while he was hear to look at the vid and have the sound on high.
through the movement of the jaws of both marge and stripes which both coincide with the grates, could it be the pharyngeal teeth making this noise.
what do you think.

mick

[Graeme Robson]

Hi Mick, thats Emma's camera doing the auto-focusing. Noisy little bleater isn't it.

[Emma Turner]

Yeah, Graeme's right - sorry Mick and Andy. I wish I could find a way to stop it making that noise. Still, sounds like you were having an interesting debate about the loaches!

[mickthefish]

, well thats sorted that out.
Emma get a new camera the one youve got sounds worse than me first thing in the morning.

mick

[salva]

Hi Emma!


Thank you very much for this great video. These loaches are always very interesting. I wonder if you could also record a new video of the full aquarium.. ..

Salva

[Emma Turner]

Thank you, Salva. I will attempt to video the whole thing in a few weeks time. I've decided to part with the shoal of Puntius filamentosus that are in the tank because, despite their beauty, they are so very greedy. We've managed to catch most of them out, but there are still 4 left and I think it's going to be a case of taking out most of the bogwood to get the remainder out. Then I'll replant the tank with some XL java fern and see if I can get them to last a bit longer without the big barbs (I doubt it - the clowns love uprooting them!). Then it's a case of deciding what dither fish to replace those P. filamentosus with. I do like my barbs so am thinking of going for a good sized group of a smaller species such as P. narayani.

Emma

[jones57742]

Emma:

Please refer to the "maybe" in my previous post but

but exactly how often does a West Texan have the opportunity to interrogate an international publisher in order to glean knowledge?

I really do appreciate the time which you have spent preparing posts in response to my questions but here goes again.

• [1] Based on my very limited experience with an cannister filter (which was an Eheim) I believe that the turnover rate for your tank is only 3X/hour.
  Am I all screwed up here?
  If not I do not understand as the literature indicates that 10X/hour is the desired minimum for cannister filtration.

• [2] Although the literature of the EHEIM professionel 3 indicates that
  "the pre-cleaned water falls to the bottom of the canister" I cannot ascertain from the Eheim literature that the water falls but is pressured through the three baskets.
  Am I off here?

• [3] What media do you have in the top, middle and bottom baskets?

• [4] Why do you employ cannister filtration instead of wet/dry filtration due to the size of this tank?

Emma:

If you could respond when you have time and feel like it I would appreciate it.

TR

[Tinman]

Jones, cannisters pull water through.This is the premier Clown loach tank on the net imo and is well cared for. This tank blows you away in person and is 100%RO as Emma stated. The nitrates are removed in the winter via the Nitraking and the water changes are done daily in the Summer so filtration is not an issue. There are Turbelles in the tank for flow and the surface is used to introduce O2 via powerheads splashing so the need for wet drys is removed and cannisters are sufficient.These are not hillstreams so the 20X flow rates are not required.....But the one Turbelle alone probably is more flow than most people have combined

Emma and Steve should be commended for those of you who do not know there is a pic of Marge by the Clowns at the store so people who may buy them know the situation they are getting into. I have never seen that info displayed especially at the point of sale. This proves they care more about the fish than sales and deserves high praise for them.

[jones57742]

This is the premier Clown loach tank on the net imo and is well cared for. This tank blows you away in person ...

Tinman:

I have no doubt whatsoever!

My post were only questions in order to acquire knowledge.

TR

[helen nightingale]

aww, thats a shame you are removing the barbs. they are impressive fish, but no doubt whatever you decide to have as dithers will still look stunning.

its a really good idea to have your book of suitable clown loach adopters more people should do that for all sorts of fish. do you get many people wanting you to take plecs that got a lot bigger than they realised possible?

[crazy loaches]

Nice vid! I just may have to link to that when newbies on other forums get a pair of little clowns in their 20g and say they hadnt heard they get big...

Jones... the 10X turnover suggestion IMO is just a loose rule of thumb... for one thing folks often really have no clue about their real turnover, most canisters are advertised with flow capability they can never reach (ehiems though are more accurate). People often have 1/2 the turnover (through filtration) or less than they realize. Efficient filtration such as wet/dry's for example can work well at only 2X turnover, the need for higher flow can easily be met via powerheads instead of filtration. To be honest the faster you push water through bio media the less the time the bacteria have to do their thing. Mechanical filtration is different though, and usually benefits from higher flow, so many different aspects there.