Hello everyone,
I made two posts to the old forum but i was unsure if this place was better so here are the links to my posts. Let me know what you think.
Shaun
http://aquaweb.pair.com/forums/loach/in ... read=98633
http://aquaweb.pair.com/forums/loach/in ... read=98630
Loach problems please read soon
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Graeme Robson
- Posts: 9096
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:34 am
- Location: Peterborough, UK
- Contact:
Melafix
Hi Shaun,
Melafix is OK to use with clowns, though they don't like it. That's a great pic of the cut, btw
How many other botia species do you have in the tank? As in do you have other fish in with them which have suborbital spines? It does look like a cut, but very near the spine. Another thought which occurs is what types of decorations do you have in the tank, and is it possible that with the spine extended, the fish got it caught on something and tore into the face somehow.
Give us more info on the tank:
Size, inhabitants, filtration, water parameters (pH, nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, temperature) and any other history that you think may help us sleuth your problem.
Sorry I missed your post on the other forum.
There will be a transition period moving from there to here, but I'll try to keep up 
Oh! Look, a typed smilie! Old habits do die hard
Melafix is OK to use with clowns, though they don't like it. That's a great pic of the cut, btw
How many other botia species do you have in the tank? As in do you have other fish in with them which have suborbital spines? It does look like a cut, but very near the spine. Another thought which occurs is what types of decorations do you have in the tank, and is it possible that with the spine extended, the fish got it caught on something and tore into the face somehow.
Give us more info on the tank:
Size, inhabitants, filtration, water parameters (pH, nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, temperature) and any other history that you think may help us sleuth your problem.
Sorry I missed your post on the other forum.
There will be a transition period moving from there to here, but I'll try to keep up Oh! Look, a typed smilie! Old habits do die hard
Hello everyone,
Yea, I forgot the details because I was upset about the sick fish.
The one with the cut area is now dead unfortunately.
Here is the info incase it helps you tell me what Itch treatment to use.
I have a 55 gallon tank. With now 8 loaches now 6 clowns, one Yoyo, and one Burmese. I also have a male and female beta, which don’t really interact with the beta at all. One pleco and 3 goldfish two comets and one oranda
I keep my tank at 76 degrees F.
The goldfish we have had for a long time and they are oddballs they are so used to warm water they get really lethargic and either lay at the bottom or float at the top when the water gets below 70. I know that is strange but they like 76-80 F so that’s why we added some tropical to this new tank with them in it.
I only say this because Goldfish usually hate this high temp but these guys seem to love it.
The water has been good other than some high nitrites lately and I'm trying to figure out what to do about the nitrites.
Yesterday the nitrite was at 3 or 4 and Nitrate was at about 40
I will perform a big water change today as well.
I haven’t added anyone new in about a week. (So it’s been pretty soon and it was the betas)
I changed their tank around yesterday to make more hiding places for the loaches which is how I noticed the spots on the fish.
I have raised the temp up a little and everyone was breathing hard. So today I will get a bubbler and then I assume Rid Ich that is what I see as a good match to loaches. We will try that.
Any advice is always appreciated.
Thank you
Shaun
Yea, I forgot the details because I was upset about the sick fish.
The one with the cut area is now dead unfortunately.
Here is the info incase it helps you tell me what Itch treatment to use.
I have a 55 gallon tank. With now 8 loaches now 6 clowns, one Yoyo, and one Burmese. I also have a male and female beta, which don’t really interact with the beta at all. One pleco and 3 goldfish two comets and one oranda
I keep my tank at 76 degrees F.
The goldfish we have had for a long time and they are oddballs they are so used to warm water they get really lethargic and either lay at the bottom or float at the top when the water gets below 70. I know that is strange but they like 76-80 F so that’s why we added some tropical to this new tank with them in it.
I only say this because Goldfish usually hate this high temp but these guys seem to love it.
The water has been good other than some high nitrites lately and I'm trying to figure out what to do about the nitrites.
Yesterday the nitrite was at 3 or 4 and Nitrate was at about 40
I will perform a big water change today as well.
I haven’t added anyone new in about a week. (So it’s been pretty soon and it was the betas)
I changed their tank around yesterday to make more hiding places for the loaches which is how I noticed the spots on the fish.
I have raised the temp up a little and everyone was breathing hard. So today I will get a bubbler and then I assume Rid Ich that is what I see as a good match to loaches. We will try that.
Any advice is always appreciated.
Thank you
Shaun
Hi Shaun
Thanks for the info. The bad news is that the presence of ANY nitrItes is bad. So is nitrAte at 40. The large water change is definitely called for.
If you added all those tropicals at about the same time you have overloaded your previous biofilter and that could be part of the problem. The biofilter had to catch up with the added bioload of all that sudden waste input from the new fish.
The ick probably came in with your betas or other fish added to the tank. I'm assuming you didn't use a quarantine tank? Look into that. It saves alot of grief as your hobby progresses.
Another piece of bad news is that in spite of the fact that your goldfish seem to tolerate warm temps, they are not built to do so long term. They also produce ALOT of ammonia and waste. Keeping goldfish with tropicals is not a good idea.
Do a large water change first. Gravel vac the substrate. Get the bubbler, or lower the water level to make a splash effect to increase aeration, do the rid ick at half strength, morning and evening. I'd recommend raising the temp slowly to 86 F but that would be REALLY stressful on your goldfish. Do you have another tank you could seed with some biomaterial from your 55 that they could go in?
Good luck with your treatment. You really should try to get a separate tank for either the tropicals or the goldfish...
hth
If you added all those tropicals at about the same time you have overloaded your previous biofilter and that could be part of the problem. The biofilter had to catch up with the added bioload of all that sudden waste input from the new fish.
The ick probably came in with your betas or other fish added to the tank. I'm assuming you didn't use a quarantine tank? Look into that. It saves alot of grief as your hobby progresses.
Another piece of bad news is that in spite of the fact that your goldfish seem to tolerate warm temps, they are not built to do so long term. They also produce ALOT of ammonia and waste. Keeping goldfish with tropicals is not a good idea.
Do a large water change first. Gravel vac the substrate. Get the bubbler, or lower the water level to make a splash effect to increase aeration, do the rid ick at half strength, morning and evening. I'd recommend raising the temp slowly to 86 F but that would be REALLY stressful on your goldfish. Do you have another tank you could seed with some biomaterial from your 55 that they could go in?
Good luck with your treatment. You really should try to get a separate tank for either the tropicals or the goldfish...
hth
ICH Question
OK so i was about to add ridich but i dont see anyone with white spots anymore. Is it possible for all the white spots to go away during ich?
Or is it possible that this was something else?
Will rid ich hurt anything to add it just in case ??
It says remove carbon so i assume that i should take all the carbon out of the filters but for how long ??
Thanks
Shaun
Or is it possible that this was something else?
Will rid ich hurt anything to add it just in case ??
It says remove carbon so i assume that i should take all the carbon out of the filters but for how long ??
Thanks
Shaun
Are you sure...
...it was ick you saw? If so, then treat. If you're not sure you could wait a day to see.
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Martin Thoene
- Posts: 11186
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:38 am
- Location: Toronto.....Actually, I've been on LOL since September 1998
Hifiguy, your tank has to be overstocked. If not now, then potentially very soon.
Even at a relatively small size, your Loach stock, plus Plec, plus Bettas are pushing the limits.
The Goldfish alone, at the smallest sizes they tend to be imported are enough for that tank. If you've had any of these fish any length of time, I bet your fish are getting oxygen depleted and that will affect them seriously. It will weaken them to attack by any microorganisms.
You state their heavy breathing. This is a glaringly obvious sign of oxygen distress. The warmer the water, the less O2 it will carry.
What is your filtration in this tank?
Warmer temperatures will speed up the Goldfish's metabolism and make their digestion faster, therefore waste production will be accelerated. With your Nitrate levels it's clear that the envelope is more than pushed, it is way exceeded.
The suborbital spine sheath infection is doubtless due to bacterial infection and this is caused by unsanitary conditions. Either the biological population of your filtration is not yet grown to a capacity where it can cope, or the filtration capacity is exceeded because of filter physical size and throughput.
Either you get another same size tank and split Goldfish from Tropicals or more fish are definitely going to die. In the meantime, do a fairly large water change and repeat every few days. Monitor pollution levels and feed lightly till things can hopefully (maybe) stabilize.
Loaches need lean, well filtered and moving water to thrive.
If you raise the temperature to battle Ich, you will totally compromise the Goldfish and the whole tank may crash completely.
THe Goldfish don't "like" the higher temperatures, they tolerate them. There's a difference.
Martin.
Even at a relatively small size, your Loach stock, plus Plec, plus Bettas are pushing the limits.
The Goldfish alone, at the smallest sizes they tend to be imported are enough for that tank. If you've had any of these fish any length of time, I bet your fish are getting oxygen depleted and that will affect them seriously. It will weaken them to attack by any microorganisms.
You state their heavy breathing. This is a glaringly obvious sign of oxygen distress. The warmer the water, the less O2 it will carry.
What is your filtration in this tank?
Warmer temperatures will speed up the Goldfish's metabolism and make their digestion faster, therefore waste production will be accelerated. With your Nitrate levels it's clear that the envelope is more than pushed, it is way exceeded.
The suborbital spine sheath infection is doubtless due to bacterial infection and this is caused by unsanitary conditions. Either the biological population of your filtration is not yet grown to a capacity where it can cope, or the filtration capacity is exceeded because of filter physical size and throughput.
Either you get another same size tank and split Goldfish from Tropicals or more fish are definitely going to die. In the meantime, do a fairly large water change and repeat every few days. Monitor pollution levels and feed lightly till things can hopefully (maybe) stabilize.
Loaches need lean, well filtered and moving water to thrive.
If you raise the temperature to battle Ich, you will totally compromise the Goldfish and the whole tank may crash completely.
THe Goldfish don't "like" the higher temperatures, they tolerate them. There's a difference.
Martin.
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
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Martin Thoene
- Posts: 11186
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:38 am
- Location: Toronto.....Actually, I've been on LOL since September 1998
Healthy Suborbital Spine groove
Here's a pic of what that area should look like in a healthy fish. No redness.
[/img]
Martin.
[/img]Martin.
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.-
sophie
- Posts: 1883
- Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 10:15 am
- Location: birmingham. definitely not Alabama!
- Contact:
goldfish.
hrrrm.
there's a big question as to temperature & goldfish; a lot of fancy goldfish enthusiasts keep theirs in heated tanks, and many goldfish enthusiasts of all kinds think goldfish do better in warmer rather than colder water. They certainly don't grow much in colder temperatures - other than that I couldn't say for certain, mine are in an unheated tank and perfectly happy there.
If your fancy fish are floating and sinking then there are problems; a lot of fancies have congenital swimbladder disorders which you really can't do anything about, a varied diet will help as will pristine water conditions. Lethargy - inclduing hanging at the bottom of the tank - is almost certainly a sign of poor water quality. Goldfish are weird, they produce a disturbing quantity of waste and can tolerate (tolerate, not enjoy) espeially in cold water, conditions which would kill more sensitive fish; but they really do need GOOD water to thrive. By good I mean no ammonia, no nitrites, retlatively low nitrates, a reasonable dgree of oxygenation. Cosmetics won't bother them - they'll be quite happy in pea-green water - but they need it clean in fish terms.
hth
hrrrm.
there's a big question as to temperature & goldfish; a lot of fancy goldfish enthusiasts keep theirs in heated tanks, and many goldfish enthusiasts of all kinds think goldfish do better in warmer rather than colder water. They certainly don't grow much in colder temperatures - other than that I couldn't say for certain, mine are in an unheated tank and perfectly happy there.
If your fancy fish are floating and sinking then there are problems; a lot of fancies have congenital swimbladder disorders which you really can't do anything about, a varied diet will help as will pristine water conditions. Lethargy - inclduing hanging at the bottom of the tank - is almost certainly a sign of poor water quality. Goldfish are weird, they produce a disturbing quantity of waste and can tolerate (tolerate, not enjoy) espeially in cold water, conditions which would kill more sensitive fish; but they really do need GOOD water to thrive. By good I mean no ammonia, no nitrites, retlatively low nitrates, a reasonable dgree of oxygenation. Cosmetics won't bother them - they'll be quite happy in pea-green water - but they need it clean in fish terms.
hth
Doing well now
Well its been a few days and everyone seems really happy now.
I was concerned about the water so i decided to start using Reverse osmosis water for my tank and WOW did it make a difference.
My tank is now working like it should and i have no nitrites and almost no Nitrates (when i do a water change it goes to 0) The amonium is also at 0 with my water tests. The only thing that is high is hardness and PH still.
Hardness is 300 and ph is about 7.8 to 8 now. whoch i am told is low for our area.
The Ich seems to be gone but i will continue to treat every other day for another 12 days to make sure.
We are working on another tank for the gold fish now to get them a different home.
Thanks for the help everyone.
Shaun
I was concerned about the water so i decided to start using Reverse osmosis water for my tank and WOW did it make a difference.
My tank is now working like it should and i have no nitrites and almost no Nitrates (when i do a water change it goes to 0) The amonium is also at 0 with my water tests. The only thing that is high is hardness and PH still.
Hardness is 300 and ph is about 7.8 to 8 now. whoch i am told is low for our area.
The Ich seems to be gone but i will continue to treat every other day for another 12 days to make sure.
We are working on another tank for the gold fish now to get them a different home.
Thanks for the help everyone.
Shaun
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