ich.. HELP ME AND THE LOACHES!!!

[poeticpyro]

currently treating the loach tank with malachite green (spelling?) i'm doing a 2/3 dose... i've used it before, but i want to know if there's anything better to use that is quicker? *1 week treatment would rock* one of my mid-size clowns has white-spots on his tail... very odd since everything has been going wrong in this tank lately...and he's usually a healthy one. temp is up at 79...

help!
i don't want to lose anyone... they're my babies...

[ey]

Sorry to hear about the ich. I think it would help to leave the lights off during the treatment of ich as there is less stress on the fish and I also read somewhere that the cysts (parasites) are less likely to find a host with the lights off.

Protozin from Waterlife apparently is really good for treating ich, though I'm sure other loach owners have had many success with other medications too.

Good luck with the treatment, you should see the white spots clearing up soon if the med is working.

[poeticpyro]

switched treatments to one made by Jungle...

how deadly is ich?

right now two clowns have it, tail mainly and a little bit more on their body...

any tips on getting rid of this?

lights are off
there's extra aeration

[Glostik]

I always turn up the temperature in my tank to like 88 degrees, always help to treat my ich problems.

[Emma Turner]

If you increase the temperature, be sure to increase the amount of aeration in the aquarium too, as less oxygen will be available to the fish at higher temps.

Emma

[poeticpyro]

temp is around 80... it's technically 79.6F i have increased aeration... trying to stick this one out and hopefully lose no one.. two of the baby loaches look alright, they're eating well... but they're definately getting a lot more spots than the older loaches... probably due to immune system differences. what exactly is flashing?

about how long should i treat these guys??

[libingboy]

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml

i think flashing is when you see them scratching themselves (normally the gill plate area) against a surface, in a very sudden manner...

[Xirxes]

I have had more woes from LFS ich remedies than from the ich itself in my tanks.

I recommend a less popular avenue for treatment of ich: Hot dark salt water for 3 days.

I know ppl will jump on the "loaches dont do well with salt" wagon, but in my experience (5-6 bouts with ich) this is the ONLY one which worked in less tha 1.5 months.

First, slowly (over the span of a day) increase temp to 85-86F. and add airstones if u dont have any

Next, add up to 1/6 of your gallonage in tablespoons of salt every 6-9 hours for 3 days up to 1 tablespoon per gallon. ( a mouthfull.... basically for 30 gallons, 5 tablespoons every 6-9 hours over about 3 days up to 30 tablespoons)

Last, cover the tank with a blanket in order to avoid any movement/lighting stress, and some have stated stunting ich propogation, however i find the latter most unlikely(being sure to allow ventilation)

treat for 3 days, at end of thrid day, slowly(over the span of 4th day) reduce temp back to 80F, and do 20-30% water change, adding no salt.

in a week do another 30% water change, and in another week 30% water change and should be about normal levels of salt

feed lightly once/twice a day, try to be as inobtrusive as possible.

I have done this treatment thrice, on clown loaches, as well as kubatais, red finned shark, dwarf gourami's and danios. all without incident

Do NOT add salt directly on or near loaches, as they will burn.

The loaches will be tired/sluggish near end of 3rd day, but mine were eating still heartily. Mine perked right up after the water change.

I am currently treating my Qtank with this exact procedure, and will post the results.

IMHO the ich meds do more harm than good( 6 clown loaches died in the formation of this observation, and all silicone stained blue)

You can replace any activated carbon and discontinue use of any other meds while treating.

*****DISCLAIMERS*****
1- no idea on planted tank consequences
2- inverts (snails, shrimp etc) may die
3- nothing guaranteed but worked in about 4 days compared to little/no affect in 1.5 months from products including but not limited to Rid Ich, Protozin, Aquarisol, Cure-ich, Ich cure and Ich-guard

[ClownMob]

I agree with the salt/heat as a good treatment for ich.

and like Xirxes said, some folks will say, "no salt for loaches", because they are indeed sensitive.

the only thing I disagree on is "up to 1 tbsp/gallon", that does seem like alot of salt for loaches.

just my opinion, but I'd suggest the salt/heat treatment also, but at a dose of no more than 1 tbsp/10g. I say this because I have lightly salted my clown loach tank as a preventative against illness since day one, for about a year and a half now with no illness (wood knocked), but my dose was 1 tbsp/15g, again as a preventative. I suggest the 1 tbsp/10g because they are already ill, but much more than that seems like alot.

I'm not sayin Xirxes method is wrong or anything like that, just offering more info, and 1tbsp/gallon just seems like alot to me is all.

one other note if you do add salt, dissolve it in a bucket first, don't pour it str8 into the tank undissolved.

good luck poeticpyro, hope things look get better in there.

[libingboy]

from the link i gave, they also described a similar treatment, except the final salt dosage is only 1 teaspoon/gallon...

the link also mentioned that there is a new strain of ich that seems to be able to tolerate 90F, as compared to the normal strain that dies at around 86F.

i do have some anecdotal evidence that ich does get prevented at high temp. Im in singapore, and ich seems to be very rare here, even among loaches in pet shops (which are extremely poorly run, in general, by the way). because of our pretty much standard temperature, even when we do a large water change the temp pretty much remains constant at 29-31, depending on your tank cover and filtration. the only time i had problems with ich was when i had a tank that was situated on an airconditioned room.
So i guess it really pays to invest in a good heater in temperate areas. Plus, a large plastic holding tank for ageing water can also be heated by a heater before a water change. This precludes the use of an automater water changer, but water changes can be made easier by simply putting a powerhead beneath the holding tank.

[WhtDragn101]

Never beat ich with meds, tried several. Only way I've done it is with slowly raising temp to 88-90 F for 2 weeks (to make sure its good and dead). Loaches don't seem to mind a bit, other fish might, but they will be ok unless they are very sensitive about water temp. And like others have said, don't forget the air pumps.
Keep in mind, all bets are off with live plants involved.
Oh, and one more thing, try to remove as much meds as possible before trying a different approach or very bad interactions may occur. For example, some ich meds have an ingrediant that becomes very toxic at a certain temp (85F+)

[Xirxes]

adding activated charcoal filter for a day should remove any remaining meds.

In response to 1TBLSPN/per gallon being high, i myself thought this very thing, but have read elsewhere people using up to 2TBLSPN/gallon without incident!

The trick to this treatment is the time period, adding this amount over three days seems to allow the loaches slime coat to prepar itself adaquately.

The reason why i agree with more salt is that the the nature of this treatment calls fo a LOT of change in salinity. the salinity outside the Ich free floating bodies needs to much much higher than that inside, in order to lyse the bodies, drawing all water out of them into tank water, effectively killing the free floating form. The only purpose of the heat here is to get as many cycles of the free floating form into the water as possible during treatment.

So i do understand that 1 TBLSPN/gallon may seem alot, and it is, for extended use, but for this treatment i believe that more is better, and that 1 TBLSPN/gallon does its job without damaging any fish/loaches (at least not clown or kubotai).

[libingboy]

here's a general question...
does activated carbon remove salt?

[Xirxes]

no, but it removes the active ingreds in most over the counter ich meds.

Salt only leaves through water changes

[poeticpyro]

ich update...

alright this is odd... two of the 4 clown loaches have it and three of the barbs have it only on the tail... it hasn't affected everyone in the tank. i called the jungle company and they said salt is fine with the medication that's in there... i'm going to increase the temp to 81 in a couple of minutes... i'm going to add 2 tablespoons of salt... *maybe teaspoons let me read those comments again* but thanks for all of your help... are some fish immune to ich? i have beaten ich once before but i cannot find the medication anymore... scary as all get out... well let's hope that i don't lose anyone.. thanks for all of the help and please keep it coming!