Skinny Gastro's

Gary Herring · Post by **Gary Herring** » Sun May 14, 2006 9:09 am

Hi everyone,

I need a bit of advice if thats ok.

I've had my river tank up and running for about a year now and apart from the irritation of constantly having to control populations of pest snails, everything has been going great. All my hillstreams have been happy, healthy and thriving. That is untill about a month or so ago, when i first noticed one of my Gastro's (ctento.) was a bit thin. Nothing bad, but definately noticable. This could not be caused by malnutrition, as this fish is an avid muncher of the farmed algae i feed them every other day, although i don't think i've ever actually seen him eat anything else i've offered. I remember reading a post by Martin a while back about one of his hilly's developing a 'pinched' look as a result of old age, and as my Gastro is very large (2.5") so presumably old, old age is what i put the skinnyness down to at the time.
But, in the last couple of days i have noticed another Gastro (scitulus) was becoming thin. This time it is a very small fish (1"), so it can't be due to old age. Also, this fish is greedy, eating everything i put in the tank as well as grazing algae, so again, malnutrition is not a possibility.
This morning, both fish seem to be worse, and i am now quite worried. Unfortunatly i can't post a photo (i'll try to borrow a camara tomorrow), but they are sort of 'sucked in' a bit, and you can just about see the outline of a bone behind the gills on both sides.
Apart from this thinness, both fish appear to be fine. They are both active, grazing and feeding as normal. Also, it is only these two fish affected, the other 3 Gastro's, the 2 Beaufortia's and the 2 Sewellia's are nice and fat and healthy as they should be.

My water quality is spot-on (ph 7, gh 4, kh 3, No3 10) 20% of the water is changed every week, and i use re-mineralised RO. I never feed live food (only frozen), and there has been no new arrivals recently. There are no other signs of any disease or parasite. So, has anyone got any idea what could be causing this? Some sort of internal parasite perhaps? Has anyone experienced this sort of emaciation in hillstream loaches before? And most importantly, what can i do to treat it?

Thanks in advance

Gary

Graeme Robson · Post by **Graeme Robson** » Sun May 14, 2006 4:03 pm

My thoughts are natural deviancy from perhaps sources.

This is occurring at lot lately.

Martin Thoene · Post by **Martin Thoene** » Sun May 14, 2006 5:22 pm

I don't really have any thoughts to add because that skinny Beaufortia is still going strong and no other fish look the same.

One thing though......why is Graeme doing "Yodaspeak" again?

Martin.

Graeme Robson · Post by **Graeme Robson** » Sun May 14, 2006 5:26 pm

CBA is known................

Gary Herring · Post by **Gary Herring** » Mon May 15, 2006 3:14 am

Any chance of it being caused by an internal parasite though do you think? The small one in perticular is getting skinnier by the day. I've seen threads before where clowns have been affected by internal parasites and this seems simular.

Jim Powers · Post by **Jim Powers** » Mon May 15, 2006 9:59 am

It sounds as if it could be an internal parasite, but I've nver had any experience with them in hillstreams.

Hendra · Post by **Hendra** » Mon May 15, 2006 10:41 am

I have experience with 2 skinny G. scitulus, they still have a "normal" activity and behavior like others. After sometimes, I believe one of them "disappear" and the other growing well and have "normal" size of body like others.

Gary Herring · Post by **Gary Herring** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:33 am

Thanks for the replies. I think i'll isolate the two fish and observe them closely for a few days, and if it keeps getting worse i'll have to assume its an internal parasite. If that turns out to be the case, what are the options for treatment? (bearing in mind im in the UK so can't obtain Levamasole).

Graeme Robson · Post by **Graeme Robson** » Tue May 16, 2006 10:33 pm

Sure you can obtain Levamasole. As it appears i have a spare one. It's handy having a Vet as a friend.

Saying this, i'm not sure on how Levamasole helps Hillsteams as i've never used it on them or needed to.

This cost me £10 plus P & P.(around £2) But since it expires in Oct 2006, you can have it much cheaper if like?

All you use is a syringe, as it has a resalable cork situated at the top. Contact me if intrested, Gary.

Gary Herring · Post by **Gary Herring** » Wed May 17, 2006 5:37 am

That would be great, cheers Graeme. I'll definately give it a go. Do you add the liquid directly to the water? I'll PM you my details.

Emma Turner · Post by **Emma Turner** » Wed May 17, 2006 8:43 am

That's exactly the same stuff that we use on our loaches and discus at the shop. We keep it in the fridge and get syringes from the local chemist, which they stock for diabetics that have to inject insulin. We recently used it in a tank containing a new shipment of Botia rostrata, and there were some hillstreams in the same tank (Homaloptera and the odd Sewellia and Beaufortia I think). We didn't see any adverse effects on the hillstreams, which is very encouraging.

Emma

mikev · Post by **mikev** » Wed May 17, 2006 9:05 am

Graeme Robson wrote:Saying this, i'm not sure on how Levamasole helps Hillsteams as i've never used it on them or needed to.

I did, and it worked very well (against a verified direct roundworm infection). I also used it on new hillstreams since, with no adverse effects noticed. Same was done by a local store here on a large number of hillstreams...after I mentioned to the owner that selling nematodes with fish may be hazardous to the integrity of his own neck.

However -- it may not be a worm infection at all, bacteria cases of "skinny disease" are also mentioned on the Net. Given the small size of hillstream loaches, most even indirect worms should kill them relatively quickly -- within a few months --- and it seems you had yours for a long time. IMHO, levimisole is always a good idea, and safe, but it may not deliver in your case (if the worms are not involved).

hth

Gary Herring · Post by **Gary Herring** » Wed May 17, 2006 9:46 am

mikev wrote: However -- it may not be a worm infection at all, bacteria cases of "skinny disease" are also mentioned on the Net. Given the small size of hillstream loaches, most even indirect worms should kill them relatively quickly -- within a few months --- and it seems you had yours for a long time. IMHO, levimisole is always a good idea, and safe, but it may not deliver in your case (if the worms are not involved).
hth

Hmmm.... interesting point, but as there's no (or very little) risk involved in treating with Levimisole i think its worth a try. Even if it does'nt work at least then i can eliminate internal parasites as the cause. The strange thing is that the fish is still eating and behaving absolutly as normal, which would'nt be the case if a bacterial infection was to blame. Or would it?

mikev · Post by **mikev** » Wed May 17, 2006 10:00 am

It is surely worth a try.

IMHO, it may even be worth treating every tank with levimisole every 4-6 months even if no fish has been added -- there are other vectors.

The problem I see is that you will not know if it worked --even if it did--for quite a while.

---

Also, notice that since even if you have worms, they are almost certainly indirect, you don't really need to do the crazy post-treatment cleanups of the tank.

Graeme Robson · Post by **Graeme Robson** » Wed May 17, 2006 5:02 pm

Gary Herring wrote:I'll PM you my details.

No problem.

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