Loaches: Temp and Plants

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DJRansome
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Loaches: Temp and Plants

Post by DJRansome » Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:34 pm

New to the forum with two questions: what temperature do loaches prefer, and will they eat my plants (vallisneria, java fern and crypts)?

I used to love my kuhli loaches, but my pH=7.8 well water would not make them happy I don't think.

And I may be the only one on the planet, but I don't like the clowns. I prefer small fish.

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Botia Robert
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Post by Botia Robert » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:00 pm

Hi DJRansome, and Welcome.

Different Loaches require different conditions. Similarly different Loaches will eat plants and some dont. Check out the species index http://www.loaches.com/species-index/species-index for what you are interested in. The info on Loaches here is second to none.

DJRansome
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Post by DJRansome » Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:01 pm

I have reviewed the profiles for most of the botia and former botia type loaches. I'm wondering if my tank conditions are suitable.

Pros

Temperature is 78 degrees Farenheight. Substrate is bird-seed size round granules, good for bottom dwellers with soft bellies and barbells. Filtration is double tank requirements for good water movement. DH and KH = 7. Feed is good quality sinking pellets and snails are present. Rocks, plants and covered terra cotta saucers provide cover. Weekly 50% to 75% water changes do not shock even the most sensitive fish due to exact match of water parameters (well water, no treatment required). Nitrates max at 20ppm before PWC.

Cons

pH=7.8, above max recommended range. Lights, (cycles of 6 hours on, 6 hours off), are not subdued. Some plants are rooted in substrate.

Regarding Yo-Yo and Dwarf Chain Loach, what is the recommended tank size for a group of 5 individuals? Is the pH of 7.8 too high for them to thrive? Will they harm my Vallisneria and Crypts? Will they be happy in the shade of rocks/plants when the lights are on? Will the Dwarf Chain Loaches appreciate the snails? Is there another loach that would be more appropriate?

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mistergreen
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Post by mistergreen » Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:05 pm

the loaches will adjust to 78F.. Or lower your temp to 74F.. Most plants like that temp.

Loaches will appreciate hiding places like caves & pvc pipes and most do fine with plants.. The small botias will do fine.

zmo63
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Post by zmo63 » Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:36 pm

Hi DJRansome,

I like the smaller loaches best too :)

I'm not sure what size your tank is, but I have twelve y sidthimunki (dwarf chain loaches) in a heavily planted 55. They won't harm your plants, and they love to eat snails.

Provided your tank is large enough, your set up sounds fine to me. I think they'll adapt to your pH, since 7.8 isn't TOO high, but see what others say.

I think it'll really depend on how large your tank is, and what other fish you have. I don't think I'd put mine in anything smaller than 36", but they definitely use the whole 4 feet of the 55. Oh, and you'll end up wanting more than 5 - they're addictive!

DJRansome
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Post by DJRansome » Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:42 pm

The Dwarf Chain Loaches sound really good, the tank I have in mind for them is 36". The profile says temperature should be within the range of 75 to 82 degrees, is this incorrect?

Is there a place to buy them that will guarantee they are tank bred and not wild caught? Any suggestions on sources?

zmo63
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Post by zmo63 » Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:59 pm

The profile should be correct. I keep mine at 78F.

http://www.franksaquarium.com is a great source for loaches if you're in the US. If you add your location to your profile, people might be able to give you more location-specific advice for sourcing them.

I don't think there are any wild-caught sources for sids; as I understand it, they're being bred in Asia via hormone-injection in large enough numbers that there's no incentive to collect them from the wild. I bought mine from Frank, and he can answer any questions you have about their origin. Very good guy to work with.

zmo63
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Post by zmo63 » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:01 pm

oops, I see you did add your location :oops:

Franksaquarium is in NYC, so not too far.

DJRansome
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Post by DJRansome » Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:11 am

What are good tankmates for the Sids? I've got 6 juvenile Calvus in the tank now.

pinkertd
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Post by pinkertd » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:37 am

Hi DJRansome and welcome fellow New Jerseyian! I'm keeping a tank full of sids in dechlorinated tap water, ph 7.6, temp. 78F. The tank is thickly planted with crypts, several varieties of hygrophilia, dwarf sag, taiwan moss and a little pennywort. Sids will do fine in your setup and use the rocks as cover as they feel the need to. I provided mine with a mixture of rocks and driftwood, and mine seem to prefer the driftwood as it is full of very small holes and nooks for them to sleep in. They do seem to eat small ramshorn snails, but not the larger ramshorns. Mine spend a lot of time cleaning all the leaves of plants and rooting in the gravel. I am not sure if the sids will be happy to eat the sinking pellets. Mine seem to turn their nose up at flakes, but happily devour frozen bloodworms. I add some shrimp pellets for the cories and plecos and some of the sids gather round the area, but I'm not convinced they are eating waterborn bits of it. They also love tiny insects and I've seen some of them take an interest in frozen baby brine shrimp and regular frozen brine shrimp. I am currently in the process of culturing live white worms to add to their menu. I'm located in northwest new jersey and would like to reduce my sid herd number just a bit, so if you are interested in purchasing a few, please contact me. They are not quite full grown yet.
Debbi

DJRansome
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Post by DJRansome » Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:49 pm

Wow, that is so cool, neighbor! My only hesitation is the articles on this website lobbying against combining sids with Malawi. I just want to be sure Tangs are OK...at least the laid back Calvus. What do you think...would you try it?

pinkertd
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Post by pinkertd » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:42 pm

I honestly don't know anything about Calvus so I cannot comment on whether or not sids can be in the same tank. Sorry.
Debbi

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mistergreen
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Post by mistergreen » Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:14 pm

if you have calvus already, i'd not get loaches..
They live in different habitats and won't make a good mix species tank.

DJRansome
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Post by DJRansome » Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:00 am

Thanks for the feedback and it's exactly why I am posting here. But could you tell me what is different about the habitats? Or do you mean they aren't found together in nature?

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mistergreen
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Post by mistergreen » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:03 am

DJRansome wrote:Thanks for the feedback and it's exactly why I am posting here. But could you tell me what is different about the habitats? Or do you mean they aren't found together in nature?
both I guess...
I'm sure you already know from your research, loaches are usually in river/stream sand habitat with neutral to acidic PH.. And malawi's live in lake, rocky habitat with alkaline PH.

I've never kept calvus but I'm assuming they're pretty aggressive as well and will eat any plants in the tank.

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