Sump / Trickle Filtration

[Botia Robert]

Hi, I was thinking of setting up a sump filtration for my 8x2x2 Clown tank.

The guys at the LFS call this a trickle filter. In my aquarium book these are two different things.

1. What is the difference between a trickle filter and a sump?

2. How do I work out my filtration capacity of these filters?

With canister filters I can go by the canister volume or the flow rates. I like to have the tank volume filtered about 8 times an hour. Circulation ie via a River Tank Manifold is extra.

Any other tips about what is necessary to set up a sump filtration system would be appreciated. Thanks.

[chefkeith]

Trickle Filters and Sumps are usually talked about together. Trickle filters can be called Wet/Dry filters.

A Trickle filter is probably the best biological filter for aquariums. It is usually a tower that is stuffed with bio-media and water flows down threw the media. This is the best because the media isn't submerged in water. When the media isn't submerged it gets more oxygen. This tower is almost always part of a sump system. ( the trickle filter can also be above the aquarium, without a sump.)


In the sump you'll have a reservoir of water with the return pump and sometimes a heater. When a water change is needed you can just drain the sump, then re-fill the sump with clean tap water. You can also have an over-flow on the sump and do drip style water changes. What's good about sumps is that the water level in the main tank will always stay the same. Only the water level in the sump goes up and down.

All sumps don't have trickle filters. Some of them just have a compartment that is stuffed with bio-media and the media is usually submerged in the flowing water.

[Diana]

Sump, with or without a trickle filter:
Water must leave the tank. If the tank is drilled this is easy. Pipes will pick up the water from near the surface. If the water level in the tank is too low the system will stop, so the tank will not drain all the way out.
If the tank is not drilled you will need to set up some sort of overflow box, or siphon. There are some complexities to this.
Once the water is in the sump it needs to flow from coarse media to fine, and through whatever chemical and bio media you want it to. Some people set up a series of baffles, I use undergravel plates, standing up, and allow the water to flow horizontally. This way when the water is low in the sump it can still flow through. If the baffles force the water to go up and over, it may not do this very well.

Then the water is pumped back up to the tank. I use a 300 gph pond pump, and 1" PVC pipe. The pump is connected with a float switch that turns the pump off if the water level gets too low.

In action:
Water leaves the tank via 1" PVC with LOTS of slots, so a stray leaf or bit of algae will not block it.
(I have 2 tanks set up like this, one is drilled the other is not)
The water lands in the sump, and flows through the media.
The pump returns it to the tank.

Problems: If the intake is blocked (even partially) the water from the tank does not leave as fast and the pump can pump too fast and overflow the tank. I have a ball valve between the pump and the tank so I can adjust it. I have adjusted it maybe once a year (when I clean the whole system, and take apart lots of parts)

There is a union in the line that leads from the pump to the tank and sometimes gunk will get caught there, and the pump cannot pump the water so well through the gunk. About twice a year I take apart the union to clear the gunk.

I can post more about self starting siphons when I get back from work, or you can google Durso or Stand Pipe and see what you can find.

[Tinman]

A sump collects heavy waste in the bottom so circulation in a sump keeps them healthy and the waste lifted.. I have two 150 gallon sumps that the pump feeds out of at the bottom to stop any waste collecting, I drop part of the pump outlet feed over an additional filter rack made from a plastic bread rack that sits over two milk crates ,one filled with lava ,one with bio balls so that any one may stay in place when cleaning.These are inside the top section or my trickle filter.The advantage to these over cannisters in the Oxygen flow in the filter as the water is cascaded over the racks. I pre filter the gravity returns from each tank so as to have two sponge filters so that only one is ever changed at a maintenance.
The problem I faced through many years was waste collection under or low in the filter below the racks which eventually caused crashes. This pump flows 140 Gallons per minute.I have additional cannisters on each tank plus pumps that only flow current so as to keep the waste in one of the two pre filters or the cannisters and minimize long term maintenance. I also run Fluvals on the surface at each end that require additional cleaning. Whatever style you choose you should be able to clean all of it without removing any of it except maybe a cover.As each one of the sumps is emptied every two minutes I needed two for this amount of flow. This can be done smaller for one tank with the pump at the bottom and the filter racks not obstructing the sump so as to be able to clean it or see the waste as mine is now.

[Tinman]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-CPR-CS50- ... 18Q2el1247

This solves this easily

Diana said

If the tank is not drilled you will need to set up some sort of overflow box, or siphon. There are some complexities to this.

I have these and like them.

[Botia Robert]

Thanks very much for the responses.

I probably will set up a sump for this tank. So far I prefer the idea of drilling along the back of the tank wall.

I will research different arrangments and set ups for the sump and then get back to you all.

What size sump would I need for a 8' x 2' x 2' tank. 750 L = 200 US gallons = 170 UK gallons. BTW thats water volume not tank capacity. I would like to achieve between 8 - 10 times turnover per hour?

Thanks again.

[Tinman]

200 gallons x 10 = 2000 GPH

you must add for sump to be accurate but on a little Giant external pump this is shown on the following chart. If you put the pump in the tank the wattage transfers to heat in the water so it can be dangerous in the Summer for those without AC. The pump you need in this brand is 445 watts for a single pump. You may drill the sump also and put this pump at the lowest sump level and have minimal piping.The first chart is different models rated in horsepower ,watts and amps,the height it can lift and finally pipe size on the inlet and outlet of the pump

-MDQ-SC 1/30hp 96W 1.6A 14.4ft 6.20 0.50" FNPT/0.5" MNPT
2-MDQX-SC 1/30hp 96W 1.5A 8.10ft 3.50 1.00" FNPT/1.0" MNPT
3-MDQ-SC 1/15hp 90W 0.8A 18.0ft 7.80 0.75" FNPT/0.5" MNPT
3-MDQX-SC 1/15hp 100W 0.9A 14.0ft 6.10 1.00" FNPT/1.0" MNPT
4-MDQ-SC 1/10hp 150W 1.3A 24.3ft 10.5 1.00" FNPT/0.5" MNPT
4-MDQX-SC 1/10hp 145W 1.3A 17.0ft 7.40 1.00" FNPT/1.0" MNPT
TE-5.5-MDQ-SC 1/2hp 445W 4.6A 44.0ft 20.0 1.00" FNPT/3/4" MNPT

Flow Rates:
Model # @ 1ft Head @ 1ft Head @ 3ft Head @ 3ft Head @ 6ft Head
4-MDQX-SC 1325gph 1325gph 1225gph 1225gph 1080gph
TE-5.5-MDQ-SC 2250gph 2250gph 2200gph 2200gph 2100gph 2100gph


By this you need the 445 watt pump BUT by using the 145 watt pump and supplementing with cannisters the rest you reduce the wattage,noise and size and save energy.
The 145 watt pump flows 1225 GPH so you would need additional 775GPH to attain your goal. You could get 350GPH in a RENA Filstar 3 cannister for 19 watts. You would then have two filters for redundancy and then add an internal Turbelle Nanostream 6025 strictly for flow and loach surfing that is 660 GPH with 6 watts and it does not need cleaning.

145 watts 1225 GPH external pump
19 watts 350 GPH cannister
6 watts 660 GPH Turbelle internal pump

170 watts 2235 GPH

VS

445 watts 2200 GPH external single pump

[Tinman]

we are 120 volt here btw for the calcs on load....

[Diana]

For sizing the sump:
1) Filter media volume.
2) Space for the pump. Whether the pump is in the sump or the tank it is water cooled, and the water is tank water. It will heat the tank.
3) Extra space in case power goes out. The tank will drain down to a certain spot, and that much water must fit in the sump. How much will drain out of the tank depends on how you have the siphon or overflow box set up. You want the least possible so you do not need much of a safety zone in the sump.

I use storage boxes. On my 72 gallon tank the box is about 15" x 24", but rather shallow. I fill it to about 8" deep on water change day, and a day or two later evaporation has lowered it to about 6". There really is not the safety zone in this when it is 8" deep in water. This is not too far off of 10% more water in the system.
For my 125 gallon the box is a lot deeper. It is about 14" x 20", and could be filled with up to 18" of water, but I was running it at about 12". I was about to set up a second one like this for the tank, when the tank leaked out one more time. I have since bought another tank, and am making a stand for it. It will have 2 self starting siphons and 2 sumps. The sumps will be planted with house plants and pond plants. One would be around 10% extra volume, 2 will hold about 20% more water than the tank itself.
I used to run a Fluval 404 and the sump, and had an Aquaclear 110 on this tank to start cycling it for another tank. All this water movement was great, but I liked the sump and decided to go with 2 of them. Great place for my pond plants in the winter.

[Botia Robert]

Thanks for the info. I will digest this and get myself ready.