Gravel ?? for Dojo's

[Diane C]

This looks like a great forum. I am sure I will be back to visit often and that I will learn a lot from all of you.

I have just purchased my first Golden Dojo Loach. I didn't realize how much I was going to fall in love with her/him. They are so entertaining. I have only had my tank for a little over a month. The gravel I have in there now is called CongaRoc gravel. It is a mixture of various size pebbles from little pea size to maybe the size of an eraser on the end of a pencil and it doesn't feel like there are any sharp edges. It is a very pretty gravel, but I am worried after doing some research on the internet that this might be too hard or ruff on the Dojo. I know I don't have enough in my tank right now for her to bury herself , but should I get a different smaller gravel, and if so, do you have any recommendations? I looked on the internet, but was kind of at a loss on what to buy. Any info you can possibly help me with, I would appreciate.

Thank you for your help.

Diane

[starsplitter7]

Hi there,

Where do you live? Makes it easier to give suggestions if we know what country you live in.

Boy Dojos have longer pectoral fins.

I have mine in a tank with sand (pool filter sand) rinsed very well. And lots of floating plants. Do a quick search and you will see pictures of member's Dojos hanging in floating plants like hornwort and anacharis.

You will want at least 3 Dojos and keep in mind that they like cooler water and will grow to 9+ inches, so they need a big tank.

If your tank is just a month old, make sure you get a water check to find out how your Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate are doing.

Best wishes.

[Diane C]

Sorry about not posting where I live. I am in Salmon ID. It is a very small town and I don't have a lot of access to aquarium stuff. We do have 1 store that carries fish and equipment etc.

My tank is a 35 gallon Hexagon. I bought it used from the local fish store. I also set up a 20 gallon tank at my office several months ago. Someone had given us a tank, so we decided to put it up. I guesss I got hooked. I have an assortment of fish, male and female Betta, Platties, Balloon Mollies, male Guppies, Neons, Tetras and 2 frogs. I have been going by the advice of the ladies at the fish store on what get along together. However, they don't seem to know a whole lot about the Dojos. I think one of the ladies that works there has them, but she is gone for a few weeks, so I haven't been able to ask her yet.

I put in plastic plants. I am sure you are thinking why in the world, but when I first set up my tank at work, I had the floating moss, not sure of the name, and after I came in from a week-end, it was all dead and the tank was was a mess and smelled horrible. It tooks me weeks to get it cleared out. Thankfully none of the fish died. I don't know what happened. I only had the moss for a week. That kind of scared me from using real plants. I am thinking I might give them a try. I would much rather have real plants than plastic ones. I did buy plastic plants that are soft and they don't have sharp edges, but I love the looks of real ones.

I will take your suggestion and buy hornwort and anacharis. You said these are free floating, so do they float to the top of the tank or will they stay on the bottom?

I have been testing my water. So far so good. I have done a partial water change and will probably do another one this week-end.

Thank you for your help. I am sure I am going to have a lot of questions.

[starsplitter7]

I have plastic plants in all my tanks too. I do not have the green thumb that many people on this forum do. My fish dig up my plants. That's why I grow hornwort and anacharis. They are super easy, don't need a lot of light, especially the anacharis. Anacharis is my favorite easy plant. Mine float from the top down. Top 1/3 -2/3 of the tank. Take the rubber band or metal clamp off the bottom, rinse the plant, cut off any dead parts, and put in your tank. The anacharis and hornwort grow fast too.

Plants provide a lounging place for the Dojos and suck Nitrates out of the water.

When you test your water, you get Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0 and Nitrate less than 20, right? Those are the readings you need.

The sand I mentioned you buy at pool supply stores. Even though I live in a big city, I still can't find everything I need, so I am sure it is tough for you. There are other good sources for sand. Do a search on this site, and you will see the replies by people on what kind of sand to get.

What kind of frogs did you get? Are they African Dwarf Frogs or African Clawed Frogs? This is important.

I work at a fish store, and the strangest piece of advice that I give people is "Sniff your tank everyday." If it smells like "earth" you are good to go. If it smells like something died, go get it out before you lose your tank. Of course, you also watch your fish, but for me the smell is an early warning system.

Here's a link Barracuda posted of his Dojos lounging in plants, and the second picture is my Dojos doing the same. The predominant plant in my photos is hornwort with the really bright green being anacharis.
http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php ... ight=dojos

Notice that in both pictures there are multiple Dojos.

[Diane C]

Thank you Starsplitter for the info on the plants. I will see if our local store has these particular plants, if not I will either go out of town to buy them or look online. When you say they grow from the top down, do you need to add any kind of weight or anything to make them grow down? As you can tell, I am very ignorant of growing plants. I am learning as I go and I appreicate you advice.

The frogs I have are the African Dwarf frogs. Is that OK? I really wasn't sure until I looked on the internet and saw the discription on each. They are definitely the dwarf frogs. They can be so funny at times and I just love them too. I find all my fish amusing. They all seem to have their own personalites. I never thought that would be the case.

What kind of tester do you have? The one at my work is a test strip that you just dunk in the water and gives different colors for the different tests. The one I have at home is a vile and you puts drops in it. Goes from clear which is good to dark green which is bad. Yours sounds different and might be a better tester.

I also have an undergravel filter, plus a Whisper filter on top. I am not too sure if I can put sand down because of the undergravel filter. What do you think?

I don't think smelling your tank is weird at all. I can usually tell by smelling also. If it has a bad oder, I usually do a water change and that takes care of it.

I saw that link that you posted of the pics of the Dojo's. I was looking at them when I first did a search on the interent. They are so adorable. I love the way yours has it's head poked out threw your plants. That is so neat. I need to get mine some good plants, plus I have on order a rock/cave that will give him the darkness that it sounds like he likes.

I think I am really going to enjoy this forum. I haven't had much time yet to go anywhere else and read other things, but I plan on it this week-end.

Thanks again, I appreciate you help

Diane

[starsplitter7]

African Dwarf Frogs are great. I only caution on the regular frogs, because they grow larger and can eat your fish. The dwarfs are mild mannered and too small to eat anything besides fry. I have three dwarfs. Mine are rescues from crawdad tanks. They are missing toes and feet. I have pictures of them on here too. They are regrown some toes, and appear to be doing quite well.

Usually if a store has a plant, anacharis is the plant -- very common, cheap plants. Don't put any weights on it. It breaks the plant and can rot it. They just float anywhere from 1/3 down to the top. As soon as you put it in, you will see your Dojo there. My golden ones spend a lot of time in the plants, my regular ones tend to lay on the gravel, but none of them hide. They are usually piled on top of each other.

I have a liquid test kit from API. I think it is middle of the road. I have the strips too, but they don't work as well, so I do not use them. On mine if the liquid is yellow I have 0 ammonia. Blue is 0 nitrite. But each test is different.

I don't know underwater filters, but it doesn't sound like sand is a good idea.

[Diane C]

Thanks for the warning about the frogs. I was hoping I had not made a bad choice. I know where I buy my fish, they know I want a friendly tank..

I am sure the plant the store has is the anacharis. I love the looks of it, but I had that bad experience with it at my office tank, that I was afraid to try it again. It had died over Memorial Week-end and I was out of the office for 3 days. I didn't have a timer on my tank yet, and this probably was the whole problem in a nutshell. I could smell my tank as soon as I walked in my office. I knew something bad had happened. The whole plant had died and sank to the bottom of the tank. I am so lucky I didn't lose any fish. I ended up draining out over 1/2 of my water. What a mess it was. I think I will give it another try, especially if the Dojo's like it.

Since I have a deep tank, do you still think the Dojo's will come up to the top and get into the plant? I have yet to see him come more than 1/2 way up the tank , but maybe once he sees the plant he will. I had read that they like to hide out in a cave or something similar, but you mentioned that you didn't have anything like that and yours just hung out in the plants, so I will try the plants first and see what happens.

I will also look for a test kit from API. I want something I can depend on.

Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions.

Have a good Friday.

Diane

[starsplitter7]

I have so much anacharis and horwort in my tank, that it covers about the top half of one end. The power jet pushes it to one side, and that's where the Gold Dojos lounge. They will also surf the flow of the power jet. The bottom of the tank has many caves, driftwood, decorations, and other places to hide in or lay on. For the most part, they lay on the decorations, not in the decorations. But all fish are different and yours may love a cave.

Pick plants that are green. My poor anacharis can go for weeks with no light except ambient light in the room. In the summer it is too hot to use lights. Hornwort will fall apart without enough light, but the anacharis seems to do fine. If my hornwort falls apart and drops its leaves, I use a fine mesh net and fish it out with figure 8 motions. Works pretty well.

I am a beginner starting with fish four years ago, so remember other people may have other advice, and I am not an expert. But I do love my Dojos, and they eat from my fingers -- one reason I think they lounge in the plants. Easy access to food. Too me they are like Puppy Dogs. In the future you may want to look into a long tank like a 55 if you want to keep Dojos long term. They get big and long. Just something to think about.

[paperdragon]

I started out with my dojos in a 35g hex too. They still use every inch of the tank from top to bottom even with a tall tank. You'll probably want to upgrade to a larger tank and get your dojos some buddies before long though. I only had mine in the hex tank for less than 6 months before they started seeming cramped. My male especially likes to swim very fast straight along the the front of the tank, and the hex tank didn't allow much room for that.

[Diane C]

Thanks Paperdragon

Wow, I am getting a little worried that I might have made a mistake by buying my Dojo since I have the 35 gal Hex. I kind of wanted to buy another one tomorrow, so this one had a buddy, but maybe I had better rethink that idea.

I would love to have a bigger tank, but I don't have the room right now. As soon as I get new carpet installed, hopefully next year, I will have a wall that would be large enough. I plan on removing some rock in a corner that had a wood stove on it. I no longer have the wood stove, but I can't remove the rock until I get carpet.

Do you think I should go ahead and buy one more Dojo? Will I make it worse for the one I have in there because the new one might take up too much space?

I feel like such a dumb, dumb, but I am learning. I know a lot more now than I did when I first started, but I have so much more to learn. I appreciate all the help I can get and any advice.

Diane

[starsplitter7]

What else do you have in the tank? I would get one more Dojo and plan on a new tank as soon as possible. The Dojos really do like company.

[Diane C]

I have a male Betta, a female betta, 3 balloon mollies and 2 reg mollies, 4 Neons, 2 tetras and 3 male guppies (the ones with the gorgeous tales) and of course my 2 frogs. They keep telling me at the fish store that I have plenty of room for more fish. They have a chart and for my size aquarium, I think it will hold something like 40 small fish, but I don't want that many fish. I kind of like what I have now. Not too many. It doesn't appear over crowded, and I can see what I have.

Down at work I have the Bala sharks and they are so pretty. DH wants me to get a couple of those, but I am debating. I know they get very large also. At work, (20 gallon tank)I also have a male betta, female betta, 2 balloon mollies, 4 male guppy's and 2 clown loaches, and a plecaustmas (sp) and 2 frogs. I also have 2 fry. They came from the mollies and I got very lucky that I saw them and now they are in a baby basket attached to the side of the tank until they get old enough to join the others. They are about a month old now.

Tomorrow, I will go down to the fish store and buy some live plant/plants, depending on what they have and I will also get one more Dojo. I don't want him to be lonely. I think he needs a buddy.

I have tried to get him to come up by my fingers, but I think I scare him. Everytime I reach down into the tank, he runs and hides. Maybe once I get a floating plant he will be closer to the top and will get use to me. My other fish swim all around my finger and my male Betta kind of wraps himself around my finger. The mollies come up and nudge me. I think they are hoping for some food. They do appear to be little piggy's, the balloon mollies that is.

I am hoping I will have enough time this week-end to look around the forum. It looks like there is a lot of good info on here.

Thanks again and have a nice week-end

Diane

[starsplitter7]

I would get the one other Dojo and no other fish.

The Balas get to 12" I think and are a schooling fish. They need a 55 when they are young, and more when they are bigger. They are pretty and peaceful, but need a big tank.

Unfortunately, those clowns will need a bigger tank soon. Most LFS have no idea about their requirements. 55 gallons for very small fish and 120 as they get older. They get between 12-16", but it takes many years. They also want to be in a group of 5+. They live 20+ years. If the tank is too small, they get stunted. Take a look at the species profile.
Clown Loach
http://www.loaches.com/species-index/cl ... cracanthus

Dojos
http://www.loaches.com/species-index/we ... licaudatus

[paperdragon]

I think you may want to be careful about taking advice from the fish store. I'd never put 40" of fish in a 35g hex.
Here's a bit of stocking advice I was given for my hex when I first found this site:
"Another guide is inches of fish per square inches of tank surface:
The hexagon has 2.38 square feet or 342 square inches. Divide by 12 to find out how many inches of fish (under 2" long each) would work: 28" of small fish.
This is from the point of view that a particular surface area of a tank can only be exposed to so much air, and gas exchange is based on the size of this area. More fish need more oxygen that can be provided in a tall, narrow tank. "

You have to keep in mind of course that the inches of fish is for the size they'll be full grown.

As far as your tank at work, not only will the shark and clown loaches get too big like starsplitter mentioned, but also the pleco will probably need 55+ gallons unless its a small species like a bristlenose.

Another issue is that bettas actually need temperatures of about 78F (not common knowledge since shops keep selling them for unheated bowls), which is too high for the dojos.

Here's a site that has profiles for quite a few fish. Not all the fish sizes are right, but the minimum tank sizes and temps usually are: http://aquavisie.retry.org/Database/Aqu ... sh1.html#B

[Diane C]

Thanks Paperdragon for the advice. I thought 50 some fish were too many for my hexagon. I feel I am just about right, for now and if I lose any fish I will replace them. So far I have been lucky. The fish store did not tell me how big the clown loaches, sharks or the Pleco were going to get and that they probably would outgrow my tank. However, that is probably my fault as I didn't do my homework. I never gave it another thought . I just figured as long as I didn't overcrowd my tank, I was good to go. The clown loaches have really grown and so has the Pleco. Getting a bigger tank at work is definitely not in the cards, but I might have someone I can give them to who does have a large tank. That would solve that problem. As for the temp of the water. Mine at home runs between 76 and 78, and work is around 74. My bettas seem to be fine with it. What do they do if it gets too cold for them, the Betta's, and what do the Dojo's do when it gets to warm?

I went to the fish store today and I bought another small Dojo. It is much smaller than the one I got last week. At first they didn't see each other, but once they did, they won't leave each other alone. I went to the tank and looked in and the small one had it's head laying on the back of the big one. It was so cute. Even DH was in awe.

OK Starsplitter. I bought a floating plant. The lady at the store called it a Green Foxtail. Have you ever heard of this? It is very lacy looking and suppose to grow fast. There are several pieces that she gave me. When I put it in the tank it went right to the bottom and then some of it came back to the top and started to float back down again. I kind of hooked it to one of my tall plastic plants so it would stay in place. Is this normal? I think my filter keeps making it go to the bottom. I also have a piece that is floating on the bottom. Is that OK if it stays down there?

Thanks again to the both of you. You have helped me so much and I really appreciate it.

Diane