Which Misgurnus?

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Matt
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Which Misgurnus?

Post by Matt » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:24 pm

Caught these today. M. anguillicaudatus?

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There seem to be two colour forms...
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Cheers

Matt

Diana
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Post by Diana » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:45 am

Wild? or feral? Isn't there a species of Misgurnis native to Europe?
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

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Mad Duff
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Post by Mad Duff » Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:59 am

Personally I think they show a lot of similarity with Misgurnus mizolepis :?
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14 loach species bred, which will be next?

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daspricey
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Post by daspricey » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:39 am

Though it does look alot like mizolepis i would lean toward anguillicaudatus for two reasons. Mizolepis is from Asia and is rarely seen in the trade so how could it have go to Spain? where as the common anguillicaudatus is commonly seen in the trade and has already been introduced into Spain (NE Iberian Peninsula (Thanks again for that paper Matt! ;-))) and has probably been introduced elsewhere in Spain. Aso considering you never caught any adults also indicates that they have been introduced and hasn't established themselves IMO. The other reason is think anguillicaudatus is that they are such a varied species it's likely that there is a particular variant looks like this. If you look at this fishbase page there are several misgurnus that was considered distinct species.

Then again it might be another misgurnus species; there are 7 recognised species according to fish base.

David

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Matt
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Post by Matt » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:43 pm

Cheers guys. :) Diane M. fossilis is the European species but these are definitely not that one. The reason I mentioned not catching any adults is that there were loads of them at this size. Every scoop of the net was turning up 4 or 5 fish...weird...
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Mad Duff
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Post by Mad Duff » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:56 pm

daspricey wrote:Though it does look alot like mizolepis i would lean toward anguillicaudatus for two reasons. Mizolepis is from Asia and is rarely seen in the trade so how could it have go to Spain?
Its just a hunch David , I spoke to a friend of mine after he returned from Taiwan around 3 years ago and he said that there was a lot of work getting carried out breeding male M. mizolepis to female M. anguillicaudatus. This triploid hybridisation was creating faster growing fish, and he said that the fish produced looked more like M. mizolepis than M. anguillicaudatus.

I am highly likely completely wrong but the fact that lots of small ones but no adults were found would indicate that the fish have been put there by someone and I am just wondering if some of these hybrid fish are making their way out of Asia.
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Post by mistergreen » Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:15 pm

Mad Duff wrote:
I am highly likely completely wrong but the fact that lots of small ones but no adults were found would indicate that the fish have been put there by someone
Just a thought, from observations though fishing, young fish hang out together in schools with no adult around. And they seem to be from the same brood. I would see different groups of young fish and they're all the same size/age.

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Post by Matt » Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:47 pm

Good point Mistergreen but in this case I don't think that is the answer. The loaches were caught in these two small ponds which are cut off from the lake behind by a few metres. The water is only a couple of feet deep in the middle of the ponds and I took plenty of scoops without finding a single adult fish but there were literally hundreds of these small ones. Is there a chance that something could be limiting their growth perhaps? :?
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daspricey
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Post by daspricey » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:33 pm

Mad Duff wrote:
daspricey wrote:Though it does look alot like mizolepis i would lean toward anguillicaudatus for two reasons. Mizolepis is from Asia and is rarely seen in the trade so how could it have go to Spain?
Its just a hunch David , I spoke to a friend of mine after he returned from Taiwan around 3 years ago and he said that there was a lot of work getting carried out breeding male M. mizolepis to female M. anguillicaudatus. This triploid hybridisation was creating faster growing fish, and he said that the fish produced looked more like M. mizolepis than M. anguillicaudatus.
Interesting points. I do remember reading a paper with something to do with crossing anguillicaudatus and mizolepis. I have wondered in the past if the weather loaches in the trade actually are true fish. :?

Emma, have you ever seen wild misgurnus on your lists?

Sorry to go a little of topic, Matt. Thats a beautiful places and nice photos! :D

David

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Post by Emma Turner » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:01 pm

Great pics, once again! 8) I am so jealous of your days out to look for fish. They look like juvenile M. anguillicaudatus to me, but then where are the adults? :?

David - unlike with many other species, the suppliers never ever say whether their Misgurnus are captive bred or wild caught, but I would think that they were mostly (if not all) captive bred, given that they are a food fish in the east.

Emma
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The.Dark.One
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Post by The.Dark.One » Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:29 am

You can usually tell mizolepis from anguillicaudatus by the shorter post dorsal area and the ridge of flesh along the same area. If you can get a photo of one in water then we should have a better idea.
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Matt
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Post by Matt » Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:30 am

daspricey wrote:
Sorry to go a little of topic, Matt. Thats a beautiful places and nice photos! :D

David
Whyyy you liddle....!!


Hehe don´t worry David, this is an interesting discussion. Incidentally I now reckon there´s a good chance these are hybrids. Through discussion elsewhere we´ve now confirmed that Misgurnus hybridisation is occuring in the Far East. Seeing as these mutants are produced for accelerated growth amongst other things I think it´s perfectly feasible that they have been exported for the pet trade as turnover would be optimised that way. Just hypothesising obviously. By the way, does anyone have any thoughts as to why there are two colour forms here?

Cheers

Matt

Edit: Thanks Emma, glad you are enjoying my nonsense! :D Lord Foul I´m waiting for photo tanks to arrive from England. After that I´ll try for some more shots. I have a bunch more pics of these too so will have a check later. Am in an internet caff just now.

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Post by Bully » Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:47 am

Matt wrote:Good point Mistergreen but in this case I don't think that is the answer. The loaches were caught in these two small ponds which are cut off from the lake behind by a few metres. The water is only a couple of feet deep in the middle of the ponds and I took plenty of scoops without finding a single adult fish but there were literally hundreds of these small ones. Is there a chance that something could be limiting their growth perhaps? :?
Does the lake ever rise above the ponds?

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Matt
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Post by Matt » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:46 pm

From the look of the marginal vegetation I´d hazard a guess at no Bully. I´m going to email the park staff and see if they know anything about these fish as they´re the only ones I found not listed in their guide book.

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Post by piggy4 » Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:20 am

Wouldnt it be easy for eggs to be transfered from small ponds to larger water , via the old egg on a leg method :?:

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