seting up for distilled water question(w/ clown loaches)

[cloudgodd]

Planning on changing my water to a 50% distilled water 50% tap water.
For my pH is currently at 7.6, and I need a 6.5 -7 for my clown loaches... so would this be a good way to go about doing the change?

For instance say a 25% distilled WC, wait a week then another 25% distilled WC, then on the regular WC/cleaning do 12.5% distilled, and 12.5% tap?

Would that be enough to lower the KH, and pH of the tap water?

and once I have used the distilled should I continue use of the pH buffer it says it maintains a neutral 7.0 (e.g. if your pH is 8 it will bring it down to 7, and if it is 6.8 it will bring it up to 7)

[Gary Stanton]

Many people just acclimate their fish to the pH of their water source. I've seen clowns live in pH 8.0 for many years. Adding bog wood lowers it.

[cloudgodd]

yeah I added some mopani drift how does that work, any good?

[Gary Stanton]

yeah I added some mopani drift how does that work, any good?

Much better than trying to change the water parameters every water change. Keep in mind that your water will change color. No big deal.

[Diana]

What is the KH and GH of your tap water? Never mind the pH, it is not very important.
There is a formula for how much RO or DI water to mix with what sort of tap water, but it is just as easy to mix some in a bucket and test.

RO or DI water ought to have a pH of 7.0 once it settles being exposed to the air. GH and KH will highly likely read 0 degrees, though there might be a very small trace of minerals. Test, and if it reads enough to show then your filter system may need attention.

To lower the pH farther I was using peat moss.

I had an old RO system that let through just enough stuff that the KH and GH was around 3 degrees, and the pH was about 7.2. (tap water GH and KH normally is around 5 degrees, pH varies from the upper 7s to over 8 )
I would run a garbage can of water (32 gallon Rubbermaid Brute, with wheels) and add a knee-hi nylon stocking of peat moss and circulate the water overnight. Net result was that the pH would come down below 7, but even then not by very much. (upper 6s) depending on how many times I had used the peat moss. I could use it a dozen times or so before the effect would wear off.

To introduce such a change to the fish I would mix up the right recipe for your water and do 25% water changes once or twice a week.
Keep track of how much DI and tap water ought to be in the tank so if you need to do more water changes you can mix up something close to matching, then test and fine tune so that water changes larger than 25% do not create too much change at one time.

Here is how the math might look, lets just follow GH: (I am making up some numbers for what your tap water GH might be)
The Recipe: 25% tap water with GH of 12 degrees, 75% Distilled with a GH of 0 degrees = water with GH of 3 degrees.
Assume one water change per week@ 25%.

First week: GH in the un-changed tank is 12 degrees, matching the tap.
Second week: 25% water change, and the GH will drop by about 2 degrees. This is safe for the fish.
Third week: GH drops again by about 2 degrees.
Fourth week: GH drops by a bit less than 2 degrees.
Fifth week:L GH drops by closer to 1 degree (or you can do bigger water changes, but lets not complicate things)
Sixth week: GH drops by less than 1 degree. It is now pretty close to 5 degrees.
Seventh, Eighth and Ninth weeks: GH is continuing to drop but by something closer to .5 degrees with each water change.
By the 10th week the tank will be so close to matching the Recipe that you can now do any size water change you want (using the Recipe) and the fish will be fine.

Do not use pH altering chemicals.

Fish that thrive in low pH/soft water actually are thriving in water with a low TDS, Total Dissolved Solids. The actual pH is less important than the TDS (as long as the pH is not extreme). Spend some time looking into TDS while you are changing the water for your fish. The only way to lower the TDS is by NOT adding things, but by SUBTRACTING things from the water. Reverse Osmosis and Distilled water have almost all the stuff removed.

Distilled and RO water have so close to nothing else in them that they usually test out as under 100 ppm TDS, often in the single digits.
Water with a GH and KH pretty close to 5 degrees (my water) may test somewhere in the mid 200s to upper 300s ppm TDS, (but I am also adding plant fertilizers that do not show up in GH or KH tests).

Once you have made this change you are making a commitment to keep it up: Every water change must now be 25% tap and 75% Distilled. No short cuts. Top off with pure Distilled.

Be VERY careful when you buy new fish. Local stores rarely (if ever) keep fish in such soft water, and you will have to set up a quarantine tank that matches the water from the store. A quarantine tank ought to be standard equipment, but now you have another reason for using it: Every new fish you buy will have to be acclimated to your main tank water chemistry over a period of a month or more (depends on how different the store water is)

[loachcoach]

Using RO/DI water is a bit of work, but if your water quality is really poor it's worth the trouble. The water quality in Phoenix is hideous...not-so-liquid rock with all kinds of nastiness in it. Even after I run it through the RO, the TDS meter reads 75 and the pH is near 8.0....(I might try Diane's suggestion to use peat).

[Diana]

Peat Moss will acidify the water if the KH is pretty low. Can you get the carbonates down to 3 degrees or lower?

[Diana]

Cloudgodd asked me a few more questions via PM, and I thought I would post my answer for everyone who may be wrestling with the same sort of water:

One of the points was that the LFS said they had soft water, but baed only on the pH cloudgodd's water was hard. Here is my responce to this point and the other questions:

If they stated that your water was hard just from knowing your pH, they are lying. pH does not measure hardness. Neither does salt soften or harden the water (I have heard it both ways!) In general most water tends to be harder when the pH is up, but my water is is not so hard, and a fellow fishkeeper on the same water system measured the pH at 9.0 !!! last summer. GH and KH were only around 5 or 6 degrees the whole time.

GH and KH tests are available at the LFS. Aquarium Pharmaceuticals packages each one separately, and also offers them together in one box (a better deal than buying them separately)

GH is the hardness that fish need when a reputable source talks about 'soft water fish' or 'hard water fish'. It has so little to do with pH that GH and pH are almost stand alone measurements. either one can be high or low and there is almost no link between them.

Many soft water fish also thrive in low pH water that has organic acids in it. For these fish using peat moss is very helpful: it adds the organic acids to the water that these fish evolved to appreciate.

(Then cloudgodd asked for some clarification on the procedure to do water changes, and how peat moss could be incorporated)

Make up a mix of new water for a water change:
Mix some distilled (or reverse osmosis) water and tap water. Make the same mix every time. Put this mix in a large enough container that will hold it all, and add some peat moss in a nylon stocking. Add any sort of pump that will circulate the water and run it at least overnight, perhaps 24 hours. Peat moss can adsorb some of the molecules that make the water harder (though not much IME) and adds the organic acids. If your water mix has low enough KH (like about 3 degrees) then the peat can lower the pH quite significantly. (Don't forget dechlor if needed)

Once the Recipe is ready for use, remove 25% of the water in the tank. Refill with the prepared water.

I would mix up the water according to how I wanted it, let it circulate overnight, then reheat some on the stove to warm it up a bit.