Gravid Clown and Fight

[starsplitter7]

I never have behavioral problems with any of my loaches, and consider myself lucky. Last weekend, something went wrong. I came home, and the clowns had had a huge fight. They never fight. I don't even hear clicking unless at meal times. My 5 clowns are about 4" to 3.5". The female I think is gravid is about 4". I have moved her and a very greyed out male to the hospital tank. The other clowns have been acting normally since the fight. They all have scrapes and some bad gouges on their faces, but have all healed in the last week. The female has been swimming aimlessly in the tank. Not her normal behavior. The male has been in a breeder under the filter for extra oxygen. His tail is injured because his tankmates nibbled on it when it slipped out between the bars. AugH!

Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 40 (I am working to reduce it.) pH 6.5

I am thinking the fight is due to the gravid female. Let me know if you think she is gravid. I didn't notice the white on her body. What is that and how can I fix it? Looks like she received a bite on her dorsal, at the base of her dorsal and on her face. Looks like a bite to her tail too.
1st 2 pictures acclimating. There's plant matter in the water.


3rd and 4th in hospital tank.


Resting on her side

Acclimating with the male. He is so grey. (He is honestly improving. Looked much worse last week. I thought he wouldn't make it through the night.) It wasn't until I saw the pictures that I saw the white patches. How can I fix it? I don't think his injuries are infected. I have them in the hospital to feed well, better observation, relaxation and super clean water. What else can I do?



They are eating, and I am sure the white is not ick. I have the hospital tank super oxygenated. It is bare, but it does have Java Moss and PVC pipe. I appreciate any advice. Thanks.

[loachmom]

Hi,
Sorry your clowns are sick. Do you think it could be velvet?

[starsplitter7]

I have no idea what it is. If it is velvet, what kind of safe treatments are there? There really isn't a gold sheen.

They were perfect before the fight. I will try to get a picture of the victor. He has scratches on his face, but looks perfect.

I assume the stress of the fight has lowered their immunity.

[loachmom]

Well, I haven't any advice on treatments--I'm just not experienced enough. I'm sure someone will help out soon. I really do hope all works out for you. It's upsetting when our fish are sick.

[starsplitter7]

Thanks so much. I appreciate the support.

The rest of the fish in the tank are in good shape. It is only the clowns who rumbled. I have yoyos, Darios, Tigers and Striata in the tank too.

Tetras and Cories are all fine. Sigh!

[chefkeith]

That looks like ich to me. With Velvet the spots are 10x smaller.

[starsplitter7]

I'll increase the temp and oxygen, but it doesn't look like any ick I have seen before. I didn't even see the spots until I saw them in the photograph. He's stressed enough to pop out ick though. He hasn't shown signs of ick, but is certainly listless. I know he isn't well, so I will do anything to reduce his stress.

[silvermoon]

That looks like ich to me. With Velvet the spots are 10x smaller.

I agree with Keith. The spots on the male's tail and upper fin look just like how my major ich outbreak started.

[starsplitter7]

I will certainly start treatment, and hope my main tank isn't affected. I will keep an eye on both tanks. I certainly don't want to lose either tank.

[Ardillakilla]

If they came from the main tank and they have ich, the main tank has ich as well. You may or may not have an outbreak in the main tank but it may just be a matter of time. Fish and ich don't mix so I recommend completely eliminating the ich.

I also have what appears to be a gravid clown.

[starsplitter7]

I will start raising the temp in the main tank. So far, none of the other fish have spots and no one is scraping, but I know Ick is probably lurking. I have two powerheads, a waterfall from my filter and a big airstone. I did a small water change today. I will do another tomorrow.

When I have the ick sorted, I may need to separate my clowns. I haven't seen them since the big fight, just glimpses. Everyone has bites and gouges on their faces and on their fins. None of these fish have ever fought. I am shocked. When I separate them I was thinking of putting them in my "Grrr" tank. Not really a Grr, . . . more a fish eating tank. But these Clowns are 4" and much too big to eat. In my Grrr tank I have a ropefish, a ZigZag eel, a bichir, 2 Synodontis eruptus, 3 croaking catfish, a dragon goby and two small Plecos. Next to the S. eruptus, the clowns should be the biggest fish. The clowns should be safe, shouldn't they? I don't know which of my Clowns caused the fight, but there's only one clown visible, so I figure he's the victor. I want to give them all a break, and get them as healthy as possible.

[mistergreen]

maybe tubercles?
http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php ... t=tubercle

But I don't know if tubercles can grow on fins like that.
just in case it's ich, raise the temperature and treat for ich.

[starsplitter7]

Here are the treatments I have:
Ich X (Treats Ich, Trichodiniasis, Velvet, Saprolegniasis) --water, formaldehyde(<5%), methanol (<2%), malachite green (<.1%)

Jungle Parasitic Clear ( Treats mites, flukes, anchor worms, lice) praziquanteel, deflubenzuron, metronidazole, acriflavin

Jungle Ick Clear (ick) Victoria green, acriflavin

Mardel Maracide (Ick, Velvet other external parasites) Malachite Green, Chitosan

Mardel CopperSafe (Ick, Velvet) Chelated Copper Sulfate

The female doesn't have spots. Should I put her back in the main tank, or in the bichir tank, while I treat this ill male? She doesn't look ill or have white spot. I know Ick Treatments often kill the fish. I don't want to lose her too.

I also have Anti fungals by the same companies and Antibacterials by the same companies.

[starsplitter7]

MisterGreen, I didn't see the white spots on the fins until I looked at the picture. I think it could be Ick. Frustrating. My other fish still look okay, But I am going to need to pull out every clown and have a close look.

[lf11casey]

Hi starsplitter, I'm sorry your fish are ill. Even though your female clown is not showing signs of ich and does appear healthy do not put her in your Grr tank. You might contaminate that tank with ich. I would leave her where she is or put her back in with the other clowns.
By the way she does look gravid to me.