Yoyos attacking my clown loaches

[ey]

I have recently noticed aggressive behaviour coming from my yoyo loaches. I have 12 of them in a 95g tank along with 18 clown loaches. All 12 yoyos are between 4-6cm and I’ve had them for 2 months. 10 of the 18 clowns are juveniles too (6-8cm) while the others range from 3"-5". The yoyos have mostly minded their own business and only chased each other up until now but the last two days I’ve noticed them swimming side by side with some of my juvenile clowns (6-8cm) and the yoyos are attacking the gill area of the clown with its barbels/mouth. It is not just one yoyo either as I’ve seen two of them doing it at the same time. Once a clown shrugs them off, the yoyos will focus on another clown. I don’t think it could be due to hunger either as I feed them plenty of varied foods.

For those that keep yoyos with their clown loaches, I’m just wondering if you have seen or experienced something similar to this? Is this just playful or can it be a potential threat to my clowns? I actually noticed this the first day I added the yoyos to the tank but have not seen that behaviour since so didn’t cause a major concern for me until now.

Water parameters in the tank are 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, 15 Nitrate, pH 6.4. I understand my tank is overstocked and will be upgrading to a 6x2x2 soon. I have recently added a Eheim 2217 canister to the existing AquaClear70 and AquaOne 1200 canister. I have added 5-6 pieces of driftwood in the past month to provide plenty of hiding spots for all the loaches. I cannot see what the reason is for them to do this.

Any ideas what is causing the yoyos to act like this? I have not changed anything to the tank recently such as adding/removing fish, or anything like that.

Thanks

[Diana]

I have seen posts from other fish keepers that suggest Loaches DO whisker and bother other fish with this swimming alongside and such. I have not heard that other Loaches were the victims. Just that if the fish being bothered is too stressed by it that the fish need to be separated.
Will you be separating the Yoyos and Clowns when you get the larger tank?

[ey]

I have seen posts from other fish keepers that suggest Loaches DO whisker and bother other fish with this swimming alongside and such. I have not heard that other Loaches were the victims. Just that if the fish being bothered is too stressed by it that the fish need to be separated.
Will you be separating the Yoyos and Clowns when you get the larger tank?

Thanks Diana. When you mention that loaches whisker other fish with this swimming pattern, was there a specific type of loach that displayed this type of behaviour? I must admit I have seen the juvenile clowns chasing the other small tetras during feeding but nothing aggressive, either they are just playing or chasing them for food.

But the yoyos seem to be doing some intense chasing via swimming alongside the clowns, it is a weird sight as when the clowns dash to avoid them, the yoyos will dash with them.

I have not noticed any clowns being chased/whiskered to have been too stressed but will definitely keep a very close eye to ensure this does not get out of hand.

I would want to know what the cause of this behaviour is though, is it because of tank size, tank mates, lack of hiding spots or too many yoyos? I read somewhere when you get too many yoyos, they will start to settle in a bit too much and behave just like they would in nature and get a bit too boisterous.

I don't want to separate them when I move them to the large tank though I will have no choice but to separate if this behaviour gets worse.

So there shouldn't be any damage on the clowns being whiskered? I am juts very concerned since they are getting whiskered in their gill areas which is a vulnerable area.

[starsplitter7]

There's a term for the Yoyos swimming alongside other fish -- can't remember right now. Maying joining up. It is pretty common from the messages I have read. I am sure someone will talk about this soon. My Yoyos swim with my other loaches, but don't seem to hurt them or bother them.

[ey]

There's a term for the Yoyos swimming alongside other fish -- can't remember right now. Maying joining up. It is pretty common from the messages I have read. I am sure someone will talk about this soon. My Yoyos swim with my other loaches, but don't seem to hurt them or bother them.

I wont be as concerned if the behaviour was more playful but it at times, it looks very serious (the chasing), as sometimes it will cause the clown to dart straight into the glass or driftwood.

[starsplitter7]

I know some people are very concerned about keeping clowns and Yoyos together. Mine do fine, but they are young. I always watch for conflicts. Can you separate the fish?

My clowns just had a major blow out and I lost two.

Someone with more experience will come along I am sure.

[ey]

I know some people are very concerned about keeping clowns and Yoyos together. Mine do fine, but they are young. I always watch for conflicts. Can you separate the fish?

My clowns just had a major blow out and I lost two.

Someone with more experience will come along I am sure.

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm reading older threads and see that Emma has said that Yoyos tend to get more feisty as they get bigger, so if this does turn out to be a potential threat to the clowns, I might have to either give them away or to the LFS, or relocate them to my smaller tank (90L), though it will be way too small for them.

I don't really have other choices for loaches apart from Kuhli and Dwarfs, and the dwarfs are pretty much impossible to find as of late.

I'm not sure what I can do really. My friend kept yoyos and clowns and they seemed fine over a 2 year period.

Sorry to hear about your loss. Do you mind me asking if your 2 clowns died due to them fighting each other?

[starsplitter7]

I wasn't there when the fight happened, but all my clowns are a mess (deep scratches and gouges on their faces), so I think the clowns were fighting for dominance.

None of my other loaches show signs of injuries, including my Yoyos. My clowns are the biggest loaches and the last three are a mess, but fine. Almost completely healed.

[Marcos Mataratzis]

There's a term for the Yoyos swimming alongside other fish -- can't remember right now.

That´s Ghosting. I just answered to ey here:

http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?p=140572#140572

Marcos.

[Graeme McKellar]

Hi Ey, I see this "Ghosting" occasionally but it is a Kubotai doing it to my Alpha Yo-Yo. The Yo-Yo can be annoying to the other fish, chasing them but never really biting or such but this one Kubotai seems to "take" so much then seems to retaliate in this way. I am not sure if this Kub is the Alpha as two of my Kub's have Alpha fights that last for more than an hour but there does not seem to be a "winner". One thing i have noticed lately when the Kub's are spinning wildly the Alpha Yo-Yo watches them for a short time then charges-up between them and breaks up the fight for a minute or so, she seems to enjoy doing it. The Yo-Yo's are 10cm + and the Kub's are 7cm +.
I would not worry about this if no-one is getting hurt and regard it as too many BIG EGO'S in a small tank. LOL. I will be putting my loaches into their new 6x2x2 this weekend with some Clowns I have on hold and hope the larger quarters make things a bit more peacefull.
Cheers Graeme.