Seen this Emma?

[Martin Thoene]

It's not good news by any means.....

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/p ... p?news=958

Martin.

[Emma Turner]

We had an update from OATA on this the other day. Future imports are really not looking too promising. What doesn't help is all the ignorant shops that sell species such as hillstream loaches in the coldwater (goldfish) sections, thus drawing attention to the fact they like temperate conditions. There is a big difference between a fish living in an unheated aquarium to that of cetrain (difficult) species on that list breeding in the wild. It's such a shame.

Emma

[Martin Thoene]

Yep, typical knee-jerk uninformed reaction. How many millions of Carrasius auratus have been loosed over the years into British waterways, but do they ban imports? NO!

DUH!

Martin.

[Mark in Vancouver]

I think everyone should rejoice (to an extent) that there are British waterways thought to be condusive to potential populations of southeast Asian fish! I would have thought centuries of pollution would have made most of them uninhabitable outside the highlands.

But isn't it sad that banning imports is thought to be safer than educating the public on how not to spread foreign species...

[andyroo]

Folks,

But the UK is chokka with imported rainbow trout already. At what point do you stop calling it an ecosystem and just call it a zoo or an aquarium?

That was to be taken a bit tongue-in-cheek...

Invasiveness is a serious problem to biodiversity all over the world, and Mark, i'm sorry, education won't do it. It only takes one half-wit bored with his aquarium to potentially spoil an entire creek/fishery/ecosystem.

There were paranah attacks reported one summer when i was a kid, in Kelowna BC. (Canada)... though that was a short-lived episode. Tetras, plecostamus and cory catfish and angelfish sustained populations are reported in Banf (spelling, sorry), Alberta in the hot-springs... these are not invasive situations, but certainbly show how bizzare folks can be.
There may have been specific and undocumented endemic amphipods and molluscs in those hydro-thermal/warm streams prior to these introductions. Don't matter, they're gone now...

Anything potentially invasive needs to be controlled. People will not take this responsibilty unless made to do so. For serious collectors permits should be made availible and fish legally accounted for.... And as serious collectors they/we wouldn't mind filing for permits and registering our fish.... The same as for firearms in Canada.

The danger is ecological rather then personal/physical, but no less real.
It's our only planet, and you can't get these invasives back out.... ever.

I'm really am turning into a kill-joy, aren't i.....

Andrew

[Mark in Vancouver]

No, you're quite right. It's just sad that a potentially wonderful hobby must be regulated according to the lowest common denominators out there. It's a miracle bleach is still on the market - what with all the morons who might decide to drink it. I'm reminded that they actually put a foul-tasting chemical additive in antifreeze.

And where there is a ban, there is smuggling. A local shop specializes in Arowanas and the clerk actually told me that most of his customers drive up from the US, where the fish is banned (or at least in many states, as far as I know). Happy to make a quick buck off a blatantly unethical sale...

Psst, hey, pal! You wanna buy a delisted Schistura?

[LES..]

Yikes! I notice that cheni are not in the list of Pseudogastromyzon exempt from the ban.

I hope that this stays at the import level and is not extended to cover keeping of these fish, PFK ran a story a few weeks ago on how one guy's fish were seized and destroyed as they were being kept without a licence (please read the full story before commenting on this). It would be very harsh to see this happen to my p.cheni :-(

Emma, you mentioned that you had received some information about this, do you know if p. cheni will need to be licensed to keep?

I can accept the need to protect our eco-system so respect these moves but it does sadden me immensely that there are people out there who act so irresponsibly that they are required.

[aquarioten.nl]

pfff that not good knews...

why tis ultimate solution? education is the best thing i think...

but thats time en money and most people think it's only fish...

[Emma Turner]

Emma, you mentioned that you had received some information about this, do you know if p. cheni will need to be licensed to keep?

Sorry Les, the information we received from OATA is pretty much the same as the PFK article, so I presume it affects P. cheni as they are not listed as an exemption. CEFAS are now saying those affected fish have to be imported under a 'coldwater' licence rather than a 'tropical' licence. 'Coldwater' licences require that the fish to be imported are farm-raised, not wild caught, which sadly most of our beloved loaches are.

This is all so crazy, I feel really sad.

Emma

[andyroo]

Emma,

Many/most of what i've seen on that list has serious potential for invasive impact and should be controled. It is too bad that government must paint with such a broad brush, but even as a loach collector myself this sort of thing is a necessary evil in modern conservation.

Now the question is: farm-raised locally or abroad, and will they allow regularization of existing stocks as held by bonified collectors? Broad-brush for trout and salmon producers may also apply to loach keepers/breeders.

Will these new regs increase the prices for these specialist collector species enough that simple hobbyists might see an alternative income? Is there enough of a demand for these specialist fish to support such a network? Will these sorts of regs become the norm for the rest of Europe to again bolster such a market?

I reckon there's enough expertise on this forum to breed just about anything, and more then one member who'd jump at a chance to quit their day job to breed loaches.

First step: keep your existing stock alive and happy. This may be a nice excuse to invest in a bigger tank and super-filter system, as your fish may increase in value exponentially when no longer availible from the wild.

And yes, as Mark has mentioned there will be smuggling, particularly with the open EU. Register breeders through the "British Loach Breeders Association". Spread some rumours about wild viral infections and inbreeding in French stocks :)

In a place like the UK regs are set by ( ;) ) responsible, competant folks recognizing that they live in a less responsible or competant world. But these sorts of regs also may open doors within the (niche) market.

Thoughts? I'm always pushing my conservation through market forces agenda, aren't i.... I just wanna grow fish....

A

[Gary Herring]

So how imminant is all this? I was aware of the story that LES linked and that more fish could be added to the list, but i had no idea that the asian loaches would be affected to quite the extent that the latest PFK article seems to suggest. Could this mean the cull of existing stock in both shops and peoples aquariums? This all seems completely over the top to me, and i had no idea of the severity of the situation.

[Gary Herring]

Emma,

Many/most of what i've seen on that list has serious potential for invasive impact and should be controled.

What, in British waters? Some, maybe, but 'many/most' - I really don't think so.

[andyroo]

This seizure and destruction of fish brought to the authority's attention in good faith by a ligitimate (and obviously responsible) collector is excessive... but justifyable.

It will, however, force the trade underground such that it remains entirely unregulated and unrecorded, and potentially more dangerous.... and will leave the populous further uneducated as to the reasons why these regs are in place and the dangers of invasives.

At least when somebody must apply or fill out a form they may be informed NOT to release it into the local stream. An illegal seller or seller in Spain will not inform them, and they may end up dumping it into the pond.
It may also augment the trade in second-hand fish.... rather then release or the proverbial royal flush.

Are they putting similar regulations on snakes and turtles?... no they are not. Jersey is over-run with black rat-snakes from America. A snake can just escape and cause mischief. A fish must be deliberately released to a waterway. Registering each fish and owner would work and be the best long-term option in invasive education/control.

A

[LES..]

Eeep! i hope i wasn't being too sensationalist in my last post...

So how imminant is all this?
...
Could this mean the cull of existing stock in both shops and peoples aquariums?

Well i spent most of my lunch time trying to find more information on this but the PFK article seems to have the most details. Certainly it will be worth keeping an eye on the efishbusiness and environment agency web sites to get the full official documents when they become available (oh, if anyone can find anything appropriate on these sites relating to the new restrictions I'd greatly appreciate the links). It needs to be noted that PFK is reporting that it is now illegal to import these fish on a DOF 8T tropical fish licence, not that they are illegal to keep.

The fish in the article I linked were imported illegally and destroyed because of this, not due to the fact that they were being kept without a licence. Hopefully if a licence to keep is required showing that the fish were imported legally at the time of purchase will allow a licence to be granted.

Alas I can not find any information on if these restrictions will apply to fish previously imported on the DOF 8T licence or if they will require a licence to keep. Having said that I intend to keep a very close eye on the situation as I don't want to be caught out.

[NancyD]

Maybe a different approach could be showing governing authorities that there needs to be another category, semi-tropical or such. Not a breeding escape threat although proving a negative is difficult. Excuse my ignorance, isn't 10C appx 50F? Where in the UK does it not get colder than that at least sometimes? Or did I miss read EU for UK? Goodness knows there are plenty of introduced species in most countries screwing up natural habitats but it does seem an overreaction.
Nancy