Pecking order

[Steve]

Hi, new to the forum
I wondered if someone could give me some advice/reassurance: I have a small clown (1.5" est.) and a pair of what were sold as polkadot loaches. The polkadots are slightly bigger (at 2-2.5" est.).

I have a piece of bogwood and a slate cave, as well as several plants, as hiding places. The clown was in the tank first, and I introduced the polkas slightly later for company.

However, the clown has since become very reclusive, and seems to be 'bullied' by the other polkas. I was assured by people and articles online that polkas were friendly, small and would get along with my clown (who likewise would be sociable). I assumed they were establishing a pecking order: the polkas do not work 'together' and nudge each other as much as they do the clown.

I'm worried now though because my clown looks quite 'thin'. His colouring is fine and he has no sign of illness. It seems as if he is either not eating through concentrating on 'defending' his cave (his preferred hideout which the polkas keep 'invading'). That, or the 'fighting' is causing this to happen.
Because he spends his time in the cave I don't see much of him to keep close tabs on his condition: just quick glimpses perhaps twice a day.

My questions are:
Is it a mistake keeping mixed botia species together like this?
Will the 'fighting' settle down?
Are polkas/botias ever known for effectively killing a rival? I know the fighting isn't vicious enough for them to injure one another seriously but it seems like my clown is being starved :O

Quick note on conditions: very regular water changes (2 times a week of 15-25% each time), and feeding 2-3 times a day with mixed food (flakes + bloodworm or brineshrimp).
The polkas are doing fine...so I know tank conditions aren't terrible.

[Vancmann]

I think they would be fine. The clowns will soon establish dominance and keep the peace. You might want to feed at night also. Most loaches have different behaviors at night. If they are in the cave during the day, most likely they feel secure enough to come out of the cave at night. They will find the food with their keen sense of smell and feelers.

[Vancmann]

Oh, to answer your questions. 1. not a mistake IMHO and I doubt polka dot. can kill your clowns. At this point of your clowns life, food or lack of food is your only worry in an established tank. I highly recommend live/frozen food to get them started, then a weaning program to get them into regular food.

P.S. I am assuming your polkd dots are kubotias

[aquarioten.nl]

i don't know the size of your thank but i would keep at least 3 or 4 of both species. dot's are friendly but when irritated the will kill fish that keep irritating them.

[poeticpyro]

hopefully you have at least three clowns... they need friends and same with the polka dotted ones... they need a mate... honestly loaches LOVE company, very social creatures...

[Steve]

Hi,

Yes, the polkas are the botia kubotai. I have a pair of them, one slightly larger than the other, and the clown. I originally got a single clown because my own experience had been that my last clown was much happier on his own than with company (he schooled with mollies in fact, and was the centrepiece of my last tank). This time I decided to get the one but with two other botias as company since I was given advice they would mingle well and would make up the 'threes company' ideal number.

Today the situation was no better so I decided to 'meddle' as humans generally do. I moved the cave, and bizarrely no sign of my clown at all. He has, in fact, totally disappeared and I am now presuming him dead though yet to be found.

Having observed the kubotai behaviour, I now do not consider them to be a friendly sociable fish. On moving the cave the larger of the two is now pinning the other against the inside of the bogwood I have as they seem to be fighting over that (despite the fact there's a third cave...).
It's my belief that my kubotai, in the struggle for dominance, starved my clown and he has since died (tho as I say still haven't discovered him despite looking through the plants and gently sifting through the gravel).

Everyone's experiences are different: it's why seeking and giving advice is so subjective (there's no 'right' or 'wrong' way, but rather 'this worked for me' and 'this didn't work for me'). So, I won't say "hey everyone kubotai are aggressive" but I will say "in my experience they have been and I won't be seeking to keep mixed botias ever again".

[aquarioten.nl]

i don't find kubotai agressieve either... they just kick but when provoked.

mine do playfight but the big one in my tank protects them from my frenatus. and scares him off when he chases the smaller kubotai.

[notoo7]

Thats odd, my Kubatai tend to spend the day sunning on the slate rocks and nights digging the gravel for food. They ocassionaly shoal (school) with the smaller loaches, but for the most part stay on there own.
I originally had three but one died, right after the two week return policy expired from petsmart!

[Vancmann]

Another thing too is that although we can generalize, each fish of the same species have different personalities it seems. Thus, we ma have different experiences with the same type of fish.

[Barracuda518]

I have had my B. Kubotai for about 4 months now and no problems. I have a group of 7 and they keep to themselves, except at feeding time and they eat peacefully with all the other loaches. They do "fight" sometimes among themselves, but I think its more of a playful thing.

[notoo7]

Now my Yoys they are annoying. They sometimes will connect(?) to one of the Kuba or clowns and hitch a swim with them. Looks like the two are connected together and the kuba or clown is doing all the swimming.

[Vancmann]

LMAO, it seems out of all my botias the YoYo does this the most frequently and most agressively until the other fish, usually larger Clown or Modesta gets annoyed turns around and really connent one if you know what I mean. I call it the dance. The Yoyo usually uses a lot of energy to hang in and match direction and speed with the other fish that is trying to get away. You can verify by observing him after he has done it for over 30 seconds. He usually swims away on a rock or branch panting 5 breaths per second for oxygen.