Mail Order Loaches? Is it Safe? Reliable Source?

[BotiaMaximus]

Just getting back into aquariums and Loachkeeping after 12 years off. I'm having no troubles finding nice healthy small Clowns 2" or less and have 9 of them in my 30 gallon.

I Have a 75 gallon set up with a couple of Synodontis cats, a Red Tail Shark, 4 Australian Rainbows, and a Pleco. Having trouble finding any 4-6" Clowns or any YoYo's at all. Found a LFS next town over - about 20 miles that was recommended. They say they should be getting some in in the next few weeks. Said all they could get right now was some 9 - 11" Clowns and they were really expensive, well I don't doubt that and don't want man-eaters quite yet anyway - not for a 75 gallon.

I want to wait and see what these people come up with, they seem very loach friendly and nice. I plan to stop by and get a look at the place next week just to see their tanks.

However as a backup I was wondering about the safety, predictability, and prudence of ordering fish, especially Loaches online and having them shipped.

If anyone has experience with this good or bad, and knows of reputable dealers that can be trusted I would most appreciate any advice. The only thing I have noticed so far is that it looks like an expensive way to get your Loaches.

Thanks,
Keith

[newshound]

wow seriously 9"-11" clowns 4sale?!?!

[BotiaMaximus]

wow seriously 9"-11" clowns 4sale?!?!

That is what the man said - two weeks in a row now.

Tampa, Florida - you want 'em - he can get 'em!

Westside Aqaurium & Pets 813-839-4751

I'd imagine when feeding them frozen bloodworms you don't even need to pop them out of the packs - just throw the whole thing in there (box included) and get out of the way!

[chefkeith]

How much is really expensive?

As for buying fish online, you make your own luck. Research the sellers, ask all the right questions before you buy. Have a quarantine tank ready that matches the water parameters that they are being shipped in.

Here's a places you might want to try-
www.aquabid.com
www.franksaquarium.com/brookstreamloaches.htm

[BotiaMaximus]

I never even asked the price, my guess would be around $60 or better. This guy at the LFS didn't get any, sounds like his importer did and is having trouble finding a buyer for them.

I've seen solid (real ruler) 4" ones for $20 -$30, and 5-6" for $30 - $40 in this area. Just having trouble locating any right now when I'm ready and looking.

Cheaper than anything I've seen mail order.

From the postings I've read from the local aquarium society and from talking to Paul at the store these folks sound like the real thing for a good LFS, something I thought might have vanished from this area unless I wanted to go marine.

Q-Tank would definitely be mandatory for any sort of mail order attempt, but a good idea anyhow. I should get one going, I have time and space to set one of those up now.

I'll check out those sites - Thanks.

[Diana]

I have not ordered fish on line, but a friend shipped me some.

Pay the extra for fastest shipping.
Order in the cooler months, and get heat packs added to the boxes. MUCH safer than ordering in the hot months and ending up with boiled fish.

Be home to receive the box (or ship it to where you will be- at work, or wherever.)
Handle the fish immediately, following any instructions from the shipper to be sure of getting their 'live fish' guaranty.

if there are no instructions from the shipper I would handle them this way:
1) Find out the GH, KH, pH, TDS of the tanks the fish are in now.
2) Set up a q-tank to match. Add a cycled filter right before adding the fish (otherwise the bacteria will die with no food/ammonia)
3) When the box arrives set the bags into a bucket where they will be stable. Open each bag and add a few drops of Amquel Plus and of Nov Aqua. Add a full dose of these two items to the tank(s).
4) Test the water in the bags to make sure the GH, KH, pH and TDS are similar enough to your Q-tank.
...If the water chemistry is similar then
5a)Float the bags in the tank to equalize the temperature.
5B) Net the fish out of the bags and release them into the tank.
...If the water chemistry is NOT similar:
6a) Can you alter the q-tank chemistry to match?
6b) Drip acclimate.

Lights out for the rest of the day. Feed lightly for a few days, emphasizing foods with roughage such as peas, and daphnia. Many fish are fasted before shipping to reduce some of the waste in the bags and their digestive system may not be able to handle large, rich meals right away.

[BotiaMaximus]

Thanks Diana,

Good advice on all the issues you addressed, at the same time all the issues make me want to buy locally even more. I'm in Florida and I think my temperature window has just closed until September.

Important Question and topic switch for you Please.

Amquel and Nov Aqua

First - do you prefer Amquel to Prime? Both these products are new since I was last in the hobby and good 'ol Stress Coat was the stuff. To me they both make some REALLY lofty claims about their products and I can't figure out how much is hype and what is science, and really wish I didn't need their services in the first place.

Next, using Amquell and Nov Aqua together??? They have overlapping functions with the ammonia and chlorine/ heavy metals and so on removal. Why not just put them in one bottle or remove the overlapping functions?

I know I'm a bit of a skeptic, and quick to cry Snake Oil but one of my largest clients sells Snake Oil for humans and I can't help but notice the uncanny similarity in the marketing.

I have been using Prime - and can verify by my tests that it does what it says, it just seems to be using some freaky chemistry to get there that I'm still not comfortable with.

I would appreciate your opinions on this subject greatly.

Thanks,
Keith

[Diana]

Prime is the most economical as dechlorinator if htere are other issues such as nitrite or nitrate that you need to deal with.

The Amquel Plus and Nov Aqua method of fish acclimation is something that has been around a while (Drip-Drip-Plop method) and works.

I am not a fan of adding slime coat enhancers, vitamins, electrolytes and most other things during a regular water change, but when fish have been handled, transported, moved to a new tank and so on these things do relieve the stress and help the fish cope with the new situation.
My local water does not have a problem with heavy metals, so I do not use chelating materials regularly. This would be the one item that is useful among the other claims. It does work.
I have seen questions posted by people whose fish seem to have breathing problems, and the issue might have been traced to Aloe vera in the dechlor.

I use Chloramine Buster as dechlorinator for water changes.
Splits the chlorine-ammonia bond.
Locks up ammonia and chlorine.
Nothing else.

Other dechlorinators: Be very careful that they also lock up some ammonia, if you have chloramines in the water. Some dechlorinators will break apart the chlorine-ammonia bond, then leave the ammonia free in the tank.

I priced these out a week or two ago, basing all prices on Pet Smart on line prices, and not including shipping:
Chloramine Buster: 2 cents per 10 gallons of treated water.
Prime: 3 cents per 10 gallons of treated water.
Amquel Plus: 13 cents per 10 gallons of treated water.
Tiny bottle packaged to catch the eye of Betta keepers: $1.50 per 10 gallons of treated water.
(I did not look up Stress Coat)

[BotiaMaximus]

Thanks Diana,

I think this is the Chloramine Buster you are referring to: http://clearpond.com/Merchant2/merchant ... Code=CBUST

Looks like you can order direct from the manufacturer.

Saw it on the PetSmart website.

This looks more like all that is needed for just straight up water changing when other issues aren't a factor. Especially if I am pre-filtering before I go into the tanks.

I've ordered a pump and vinyl hose to be able to pump my pre-filtered and aged water to the tanks without carrying and splashing jugs around. Now I just need to locate suitable water storage containers 55 gallons or better. Or 2 55 gallon barrels would work good.

Have any sources for safe plastic water storage of this size?

Thanks Again for the tip!

Keith

[Diana]

That is the one I use. (Looks like they have changed the label)
I buy the 16 oz bottle at Pet Smart. 8000 gallons for around $15 shelf price.

55 gallon water containers...
Are there any bottling plants near you that bottle Coke, Pepsi and similar products? See if you can get some of their barrels. They are food safe, and any residue is water soluble. They are intended for fluids, so are very strong. Perhaps beer brewing companies use similar barrels??
Horse feed is sold in similar barrels from some companies. Go to Elk Grove Milling (California) and see if that would work for you. I have seen their barrels, and it would work, I believe. Sturdy. You would need to find a local source...
If an open container is not a problem you can get stock watering tanks any size you want. They tend to be low and wide, not tall, and lids are generally not available. But you can get them in sizes from 50 gallon on up into the hundreds of gallons.

I use Rubbermaid Brute garbage cans. 32 gallons. I got the wheels, too. They are not good on thick carpet, but are really helpful on smooth floors. Much heavier than that and I could not move it (even with wheels)

[BotiaMaximus]

The Rubbermade cans are non-toxic? That's a Home Depot item. Is there a way to be sure a plastic "garbage" can type item is safe? anything specific to look for?

Thanks,
Keith

[Ardillakilla]

I bought a 55 gal tank a few years ago and it's worked great:

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/catego ... 719&Page=1

They meet FDA requirements for being food safe.

Reefers also have a need for water storage. I've seen my local reef forum talking about local sources for water barrels so you can check your local reef forums.

[BotiaMaximus]

I bought a 55 gal tank a few years ago and it's worked great:

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/catego ... 719&Page=1

They meet FDA requirements for being food safe.

Reefers also have a need for water storage. I've seen my local reef forum talking about local sources for water barrels so you can check your local reef forums.

Great Link!!!

Thanks for the info!