Clown Loaches and Botia Dario?

[BotiaMaximus]

Was told by LFS and looking to confirm compatibility between Clowns and Botia Dario.

I have 4 - 4" (10cm) Clowns now in 75 gallon looking to add 4 more. Wanted to add 5 Dario and hopefully 5 YoYos later on.

LFS will have Clowns and Dario this weekend.

My Clowns are the primary residents, but I also love the Darios and hope they can go well together? Also - or - YoYos if they can fit in or substitute?

Other inhabitants:

4 Australian Rainbows
1 Red Tail Shark 2.5"
1 Sailfin Synodontis Cat 5"
1 Spotted (Clown) Synodontis Cat 4"
1 Common Pleco 2.5"

Filtration:
Emperor 400 Bio-Wheel hob Powerfilter
Marineland C-220 Canister Filter
Penguin 550 Powerhead w/sponge
Whisper 100 Air Pump w/airstones

Gravel Bottom
Real Rocks
Fake Plants and Driftwood (Not open for commentary )

Any compatibility advice would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Keith

[newshound]

if you do a quick search much can be found on this subject
they get along swell
although emma had problems with a pack of dario with clowns...if I recall.

[BotiaMaximus]

if you do a quick search much can be found on this subject
they get along swell
although emma had problems with a pack of dario with clowns...if I recall.

Eveything I've heard and read says it shouldn't be a problem, it was the personal accounts like the one you are describing with Emma's pack I'm curious about. There's always those exceptions out there, that's the part that raises my blood pressure.

Plus I'm enough of a chump that if they start scrapping I'll be out spending more $$$ and setting up a Dario tank.

Thanks!

[mickthefish]

slightly of the question asked but i have a pack of full grown darios in a mixed botia setup.
the only fighting the dario's do is amongst themselves if another botia joins in the fighting stops until they're on their own again.
i don't think you would have much trouble mixing them with clowns or the almorhae.

mick

[BotiaMaximus]

Thanks Mick!

I appreciate the info! This will be the first time I have mixed Botia types in a single tank. I've always had Clowns. And I had a tank with those fiesty litlle Skunks years ago but was told up front not to let them in with the Clowns.

Finding this forum has been a blessing and a curse. I'm finding out I was wrong about lots of water chemistry issues and getting great advice on all aspects of fishkeeping that updates my extremely old school methods. The curse is all the beautiful new Loaches I'm falling in love with and am now destined to spend way too much money on, adding aquariums to provide them with better conditions than I provide myself.

Cheers!

[OneWay]

I have 5 Darios w/15 Clowns, and 6 Kubs in a 220g currently and prior to that in a 75g with slightly less fish.

The Darios are always out and about, very active and so far non-agressive to the other botias. They will squabble among themselves but nothing to worry about.

The Clowns ignore them almost completely, not really schooling or bothering them at all. Due to the size difference they prefer completly different hiding spots. So this has prevented them from fighting over them.

The Kubs will sometimes run in a school with the Darios and some time bicker with them, but they seem to keep to their own as well for much of the time.


Since all my Darios and Kubs are ~4" range this could all change as they approach full size.

[BotiaMaximus]

Thanks OneWay!

Glad to hear the Darios are active - not that lots of tails sticking out of caves isn't amusing, but some activity is nice as well.

Clowns seem to ignore just about everything, they are pretty much in their own little Clown world. They go through my Sailfin Synodontis's cave, get him all upset and then go out the other side like he doesn't even exist - he gets so pissed!

Sounds like it is safe to give it a go.

I will be adding a 180 gallon minimum (hopefully larger) by the end of the year, so worst case would be that the clowns would move up and the Darios would stay in the 75.

[newshound]

I have darios at three stages of maturity.
the young are very up front.
not so much when mature.
I'd say this is regular behaviour with botia in general.

Emma wrote:

Mick, remind us how many B. dario you are keeping together. As some of you may remember, I had 13 B. dario adults in with my clowns several years ago and they terrorized the clowns (even those significantly bigger than themselves).

link

http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php ... ight=dario

[BotiaMaximus]

OK - so now the reports start coming out. There could be trouble... possibly. Could there be any country of origin answer to the aggression issue? Are there instances where maybe these 2 species actually compete with each other in the wild?

I'm still going for it, but I will have to keep a close eye on this for sure.

If there is trouble do you think I can try the same tricks as with Cichlids such as re-arrange the tank on them, make new caves - those types of things to sort of hit their reset button on the territorial aspects?

4 Clowns are already in the tank, I will add the new clowns first - give them a bit and then the Darios after that. Talked on phone with LFS today to confirm arrival, Clowns are 4" or better and Darios are 2-2.5". I will have a total of 8 Clowns and 5 Darios.

I will follow this up by strumming peaceful music to them on acoustic guitar until they or I fall asleep from boredom.

It's the best plan I can come up with

It all happens tomorrow - Sat April 2 US Eastern Time

I'll post an update - wish me luck.


Thanks for the input everybody,
Keith

P.S. I read the link put up by newshound about the Darios that were causing troubles in Emma's tank - that was a little scary, especially if it was the tank with Marge!

[mickthefish]

Keith, with all the experiences with dario's Emmas are the only ones that attacked another fish rather than their own, i still think you should have no problems as i have a total of 11 adults in my tank and i've never seen them have a go at another species.

mick

[BotiaMaximus]

Thanks Mick,

Emma's story sounds like a bad dream, and not the norm. For a Dario to have a go at Marge would make him just plain crazy or a trained killer .

I did a water change last night and everything is ready to go. Water conditions are as good as they get for my area.

I'll be picking them up in a few hours.

[BotiaMaximus]

Botia Dario turned out to be Striatas (confusion over the phone - nobody's fault). The Importer was calling them "Queens" and Paul from the LFS and myself sort of talked ourselves into what we thought they were. I had originally asked for Striatas or YoYos anyhow figuring that was about as exotic as I could hope for around here.

Anyhow they look great and are nearly 3" and only cost $5.39 US - that is very cheap for here!!! the 4" Clowns were $15.00 - typical pricing.

I dripped 'em for an hour then netted them in and they are doing great.

The Clowns I had are very happy to have new buddies. He only had 3 so now the Loach count is 7 Clowns and 4 Striata. More to come next weekend.
New Target - 10 Clowns - 7 Striata

My Red Tail Shark (Rodney) thought for a moment that maybe these Striata would fear him and give him the respect he deserves - no such luck

The Sailfin Synodontis is about to snap! The 4 clowns was bad enough but now I've gone too far - it's like having Bikers move in on both sides of you!

If I am lucky enough to find some Darios I might get them anyhow and move the Sailfin into a Beta bowl

Thanks everyone for all your input! Much appreciated!
Keith

[newshound]

use a qtank or else get a surprise.

dario can be really nippy.
I don't have a pack like emma did but my mature dario was king/mean dude of the tank until I put larger clowns in.
the rest of the dario are too small.

[BotiaMaximus]

[quote="newshound"] use a qtank or else get a surprise.

Don't jinx me!

I've got my eyes wide open looking for a "surprise", it will be a couple more months before I can relax a bit.

I know it's not textbook ideal to go straight to your tank - I had the tank up and running for 3 months with the previous starter residents - now all the loaches will go in over a three weekend stretch and then I'll be done adding fish.

I did the same scenario on a 30 gallon Bio-Cube that has some really tiny Clowns and YoYos (all ~2") that only took two weekends after the dithers settled the tank in. I got lucky on that one and everyone is doing good - no losses. These will eventually move to the 75, and the 75's Loaches to the 180+ I will get beginning of next year.

I appear to be fine so far on the 75 gallon. Have a bottle of QuickCure (malachite green/formalin) on hand just in case I see the slightest sign of parasitic troubles.

Everyone is eating and out and about - no obvious signs of trouble. I put on a lot of miles, and passed on a lot of fish before actually finding ones I felt good about. Finding the tiny guys wasn't so hard although there are plenty of scary LFSs around here and lots of skinny little Clowns. The medium size Clowns was starting to seem impossible till I found the shop through the aquarium society.

I prepared and shopped it as best as I could knowing that I was at risk without having the Q tank.

Let's hope they all do well.

[newshound]

use a qtank or else get a surprise.

Don't jinx me!

haha
if only my powers were that great
sadly what I think and write seem to have no effect on what ppl do.