How Much Water Current is Sufficient?

[vealboy]

I'm new to keeping loaches, so need to know if all loaches require the same sort of water flow/current in the tank?

I have a 55 gal tank with a powerhead rated for up to 75gal tanks, there seems to be sufficient water movement, but should I consider a different type of set up, or just adding a wave maker?

I have 19 Neon Tetra, 20 Red Eye Tetra, 1 Sailfin Pleco and 2 Clowns that I just acquired. The Clowns are no more than 2" in length.

[BotiaMaximus]

How much total filtration do you have in the tank and what types.

The powerhead along with your other filters might be enough.

Here is what I have in a 75 gallon and it is not considered excessive by loachkeeping standards.
Filtration:
Emperor 400 Bio-Wheel hob Powerfilter
Marineland C-220 Canister Filter
Penguin 550 Powerhead w/sponge
Whisper 100 Air Pump w/airstones

Clown Loaches and all their cousins come from rivers and streams with fast moving water that carries lots of oxygen - this is the critical part.

Clean water - lots of oxygen - stable conditions

Also VERY important - 2 Clowns is not enough - they are very social and need to school. It seems agreed that 5 it the minimum and the more the better up to the limits of your tank.

Clowns don't grow fast, but they can grow to 12" and live for 25 years or more with proper care - something else to consider.

Once they cross over the 6-7" length they will be in need of a larger tank.

[Diana]

I try to aim for 10 times the tank volume per hour of water movement, then go up from there.
For a 55 gallon tank, I would start with 550 gallons per hour from filters and power heads.
Some Loaches live in fast moving streams and need even more water movement. For these species I aim for 20x.

[vealboy]

I am not exactly sure what you mean by total filtration, but I do have a Penguin 350 Biowheel, and a Fusion air pump w bubble wand. In the powerhead I only have the activated charcoal cartridges right out of the box. My filter does have space for additional filter media, but I don't know if I should be using additional stuff.

I know that Clowns do get pretty big over time, so in the future I know they may need a bigger space. I think I did read here on this site that clowns should be kept in groups of 5, and should be in a minimum of 75 gal tank. I read from other sources that said a 50 gal tank is sufficient and should be kept in groups of no less than three. A third source I read did not even mention that they need to be kept in groups. The sales associate at the store said that pairs are best, and of course did not seem concerned about my set up. I settled on a pair because I know that they can get pretty big, and I didn't want them to be crowded when they get bigger.

So since I am a Clown Newbie, please share your thoughts with me on these two questions:
1) Are you suggesting that I should add three more to my pair?
2) How can I determine if I have enough water movement?

[Diana]

To determine if there is enough water movement add together what the boxes say about each of your pumps and filter, then subtract at least 20%. Boxes lie.
Ignore the bubble wand. Impossible to figure out, and, unless you have a raging torrent of bubbles, the contribution is small.

Optimum filter media will vary with how you want to keep your tanks.
I tend to have a lot of sponges and floss. These materials will grow plenty of nitrifying bacteria, as well as remove debris from the water.
I do not regularly keep activated carbon in any filter, but I do have some on hand in case of emergency. Rinse it well. The fine dust that happens with shipping and handling can irritate some fish. You do not want any of that dust entering the water.

[vealboy]

OK, thanks Diana, I appreciate your feedback. Looks like I should consider adding to my filtering in the near future. I will look into more sponge filters too.

[BotiaMaximus]

Diana is right on with the filtration capacity and advice...as usual.

Another Penguin 350 seems like it would get you into a comfortable zone and you wouldn't have to add another type of filter cartridge to keep on hand if you have room for that on your tank.

And I would say Yes to adding 3 more Clowns same size to the two you have now - that will make them feel much happier and they will settle into being Clowns and you'll see why they get so much attention and their own websites and fan clubs and such. Just two alone and they might either fight with each other or be mopey and bored. They do get large, but that takes years - 1" a year at best really, so it isn't like six months from now they'll be hanging over the sides.

[vealboy]

Thanks Botia -

I can easily install another Penguin 350, and I found on that Drs Foster & Smith site where I can buy filter media for the 350 that also includes a bio-sponge.

The 2 Clowns seem to be chasing each other around, and one has greyed out in the process. These guys are pretty cool. I will add 3 more as you suggested maybe next week. Thanks for your help!

[BotiaMaximus]

Good deal - sponges are great and you can re-use them for nearly forever.

When you go to rinse them out do it gently in a bucket of water from your tank when you do a water change, that way the sponge will stay alive with the good bacteria and you'll just get rid of the decaying junk it captured.

Best of luck!!

[Diana]

The greying out is often a signal to the other Clown Loaches, they are trying to figure out who is dominant. If they both accept one as dominant, the other as lower ranking then they generally will hang out together very well. More Clowns makes it a lot easier for them to do this. If one is more of a pest, all of them share some of the harassment, and it works better than if there are just 2 and one is a pest.

[chefkeith]

IMO, disease prevention is by far the most important thing about keeping clown loaches. Loaches are very prone to pathogenic diseases and it can be very challenging for beginners and experts alike to keep them healthy.

Before adding more clowns or other new fish again you should set-up a quarantine tank and be sure to have a fully cycled filter ready for it.

[vealboy]

IMO, disease prevention is by far the most important thing about keeping clown loaches. Loaches are very prone to pathogenic diseases and it can be very challenging for beginners and experts alike to keep them healthy.

Before adding more clowns or other new fish again you should set-up a quarantine tank and be sure to have a fully cycled filter ready for it.

Hi Chef - I assume that the quarantine is for the new incoming fish becuse I would want to prevent anything adverse from entering my existing set up, right? This may be a newbie error - but I have never used a quarantine tank for adding new fish, and things seem to be ok. Maybe I just got lucky that none of the new additions were sick.

Explain a little bit more what you mean by having a cycled filter. What I think you mean is that the filter in the main tank should not be new, and should be aged enough with beneficial bacteria and such.

A little background on my tank which I may not have shared earlier. I set up this tank in February it was a used tank/filter w bio-wheels and decorative rocks I got from my brother, I just added water and substrate, and ran the filter for a week or so before adding any fish. I have slowly added small groups of fish (tetras & a pleco) periodically, and have added some live plants (that came with snails apparently) and some driftwood from a fish store. I have done regular water changes on a bi-weekly basis, changing out maybe 25% of the water each time. When adding new water, I treat it with ammonia/chlorine neutralizing stuff and rtry to get the temperature close to my tank before adding it. I have changed the filter cartidges on a monthly basis, and are scheduled to be changed again mid-May. Based on my limited knowledge the tank should be sufficiently cycled, but hey I am new at this. If I am missing something, I am certainly open to learning something new, and would appreciate you sharing with me.

[Diana]

http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=16737

Here is a way of cycling a new or used filter, tank etc without harming fish.
The toxins that happen during cycling are just that: Toxins, that can stress a fish, harm them, or kill them.
Ammonia burns the gills. (Think of the worst sore throat you ever had. So bad it hurts to breathe)
Nitrite causes Brown Blood Disease. Nitrite enters the blood and makes it so the blood does not carry oxygen very well.

If the filter and other things you got were kept moist, and you fed the bacteria during the week that you ran it without fish, then you missed most of the worst of the cycling. You can run a tank like this and simply feed the bacteria with ammonia, similar to the fishless cycle. Then, when you are ready to add fish the bacteria are ready.

Testing kits help you to see how the bacteria are doing.
Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are the test kits to use for this.

[vealboy]

ok - I was able to keep the filters and bio-wheel wet for that critical first week, so I think I will be ok. When I do water changes, I unplug the filter and take the bio-wheels out and float them in the tank so that they do not dry out at all.

I will go and pick up a test kit for testing ammonia and nitrite levels, currently I have only pH test strips, which don't tell me anything about ammonia levels. I am hoping that the live plants and water changes are keeping the levels in check, but I should test so that I know for sure.

[vealboy]

ok picked up a hydor koralia 2 power head rated for 600 gph, I have added more plants. A recent test showed ammonia at 0.50ppm. I have added ammo chips in a nylon bag and placed it in the filter.

So while I am doing a water change today, I need to figure out the proper placement of the new power head. I have a Penguin 350 filter w biowheels, I want to know if I should place the power head near the filter intake, blowing water away from it, or should I place it on the opposite side of the tank pointed down at the substrate? This unit has a magent that secured it to the tank wall which makes it kinds easy to move if I need to later.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated!

Here is a pic: