Setting up a new tank soonish- could use some advice

[bennie]

Hello all,
I've been planning a new tank for a while now but can definatly use some advice!
Let me introduce myself first: I'm Ben from Belgium (so please excuse my grammar) and I currently have 2 freshwater tanks up and running.

The biggest one (1m) contains a pack of 8 botia striata, a shoal of 6hillstream loaches and a group of sawbwa resplendens. The tank has a smple powerhead to generate current but it's not fantastic. The fish are happy though, showing off the typical botia behaviour.
I only bought the pack of botia striata after i made sure I was going to set up a loach tank, so once the new tank is set up the hillstreamers and the botia striata are moving there, they are still a few months away from their full grown size.

I'll just tell my plans here and i'd really appreciate any input or advice on this.
So in about two months, after the painter finished his job, I can set up the loach tank. It'll be a 2meter long, 70cm high and 70 cm deep tank. It's that high because i'll have quite a thick substrate layer wich will get partly covered with some black tape or smething to finish it up so you're not looking at 15 centimeters of sand.
This how the bottom setup is supposed to be:

Plenty of stones/wood to provide hiding spots of course
/
a thin layer of fine grint without sharp edges,ensuring the sand doesn't get blown away but still giving the possibilty for digging
/
sand to fill everything up
/
PVC tubes for the river tank manifold
/
A rubber mat to prevent anything breaking the bottom glass

For the filtering I was thinking of two eheim pro III be it electronic or not of the biggest capacity ("overfiltering" here but i don't think that is possible in a botia tank)
The tank would also support the river tank manifold so the total waterflow in one direction is 15x the capacity of the tank

Now where I would really like your advice on is how many of which fish i can keep.

I was thinking to put in around 20 hillies, to expand my botia striata pak to 20 and to put in a clown loach pack of 20. I would also like to bring the sawbwa resplendens to the tank since they would form a nice upperlayer shoal. I haven't got a clue how many of them i'd put in though, they get around 5 centimeters. I thought around 50 but i really wouldn't have a clue.
Any advice or better ideas? I'll gladly listen to them all.

Kind regards
Ben

[chefkeith]

That's a real nice sized tank. About 1000 liters / 260 gallons.

My question is if Hillstreams, Botia striata, and Clown loaches have the same temperature requirements?

Hillstreams prefer cooler water, 20-24 C.
http://www.loaches.com/species-index/be ... ichowensis

Botia striata 23-27°C
http://www.loaches.com/species-index/botia-striata

Clown Loaches 25-30 C
http://www.loaches.com/species-index/cl ... cracanthus

[chefkeith]

My other thoughts are that 15 cm of sand is way to much. Sand that deep usually develops anaerobic pockets. It's best to keep sand as thin as possible.

You might want to think about running the river tank pump and manifold outside the tank. With that much water you'll need a strong pump to get the proper water flow. Large internal pumps create a lot of heat, and will make the water too warm for Hillstreams.

Or think about using a Mattenfilter instead of a manifold. Look at this Stream Project for some great ideas-
http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=16770

[bennie]

About the temperatures - good point. My current tank with the striata and hillies is at 23-24 varying over the day (i use heaters ofc, but i believe that it's a bit healthier to let the temperature vary over a degree or two just as the day goes). What do you think will get the most desireable tank setup then? dropping the hillies or dropping the clowns? And any idea on the numbers i can hold in the tank because i'm really unsure about that.

About the sand- once again good point, i'll take it into account. I'm already glad i asked for advice here..

I still have some questions though. There isn't much room to place more things actually outside the aquarium so i don't think i can do that.
The mattenfilter is very interesting and definatly something i'm considering. In the thread you linked it seems an obvious point that it reduces heat production but i don't really understand how, it's probably something obvious but please point it out for me, i'm just not seeing it

But with the mattenfilter I still need to install the rivertank manifold though because they don't work when you make the water flow to high (as the site that was linked in the other thread explained).

Thanks in advance

[bennie]

I have been thinking a bit more and it's quite possible to just install the pumps to create the current outside the aquarium, that should at least solve the problem of overheating.
Anyway with my fellow house-habitants we decided to go for the striata/clown combination rather then striata/hillie, just need to figure out how many we can have full-grown and wich other fish is the most suitable companion.

[chefkeith]

In the thread you linked it seems an obvious point that it reduces heat production but i don't really understand how, it's probably something obvious but please point it out for me, i'm just not seeing it

It's the pump design. The pump used in that mattenfilter set-up uses much less power.

Compare these 2 pumps which get the same flow rate-

Tunze Turbelle Stream 2 Pump-
Flow rate: 6,500 l/h (1,717 USgal./h)
Energy consumption: 12 Watts


Danner Mag-Drive Supreme 18
Flow rate: 6,800 l/h (1,800 USgal./h)
Energy consumption: 145 Watts

[chefkeith]

How many clowns is debatable. It depends on many factors like water quality, filtration, and how often you do maintenance on the tank. It also depends on the the size and growth rates of the clowns you get. Some clowns may grow very quickly, while others just don't grow very much at all. The clowns at the bottom of the loach hierarchy usually get stunted.

IMO, you should be able to start with 20 clowns. If by luck they all get large, you can always give some away.

You should be able to keep 20 Botia striata. Their max size is only 4 inches (10cm).

With large loach aquariums, disease prevention is the most challenging part of keeping that many loaches. Success and failure will depend on your stocking and quarantine strategies.

[bennie]

Well I'm planning to keep one of my 2 current tanks running as a quarantaine tank.
The smallest tank (60x30x30) is in a faaar better state then the larger one (the 1m one is getting really old) so I'd prefer to keep the small one as a quarantaine tank. My idea was: newly bought clowns at my trusted shop are around 2cm so I can keep them in the small tank when i'm buying to because it's only for two weeks or so.
If a grown botia gets sick, i figured i can always set up the 1 meter tank in no time using filtration material from the big tank.
Any input on this stream of thoughts is greatly appreciated ofc

And my task for the coming month is figure out if I have room to hold any other fish with those two packs in the tank without it becoming overcrowded, and if so which I figured a top layer shoal of small fish couldn't hurt.

[Diana]

Sounds like you are getting a lot of input regarding the equipment.

My concern is with the Sawbwa resplendens. Rather small to be adding to a tank with Clown Loaches. I would look into a larger fish, not much smaller than about 8-10 cm.

[bennie]

Sounds like you are getting a lot of input regarding the equipment.

My concern is with the Sawbwa resplendens. Rather small to be adding to a tank with Clown Loaches. I would look into a larger fish, not much smaller than about 8-10 cm.

Hmm the full grown ones i have now are just a tad to big to get eaten but I guess rather on the risky side for the clowns in few years. I'll look or a more suitable one. I'm just looking to put one type of higher swimming fish together with the two botia types, otherwise it'd get a bit to overwhelming. Just need to find the right fish

[FishyLady]

Just need to find the right fish

I shall be interested in what you choose as I am still looking for the 'right fish'

Val

[bennie]

Just need to find the right fish

I shall be interested in what you choose as I am still looking for the 'right fish'

Val

I've been trying out the search button a little bit and I read some of the overwhelming amount of topics on clown loaches and I'm really leaning towards some of the middle-sized (10-15cm) rainbowfish species to choose from. It seems that they are beatiful fish and a really good option..

[Diana]

Rainbows are very good tank mates for Loaches. In general Rainbows handle a wide range of water chemistry and temperature. There are a few that are better choices than others, though.
http://members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/
here is a site with LOTS of Rainbow information.

[bennie]

Update on the plans: After some meauring we decide we're going to make it 2.4 meters long wich is a nice increase and will be a tremendous home for the fish .
Something just crossed my mind though- Apart from the floating plants to dim the light i was planning to put in some of the bigger species like valisneria gigantis etc since they are quit sturdy and should be able to handle the loaches. Has anyone actually seen this kind of plant in a high current aquarium? I was just thinking about the effect the current would have and it seems to me that it wouldn't be much of a sight with the long leaves going flat in the current...