Hi
I have a clown loach in my tank roughy 4" in size, he spent a rather LONG time alone during a period where nbothing could live in my tank (how he survived is beyond me) either way a few months ago I cleane up the tank and repopulated it with fish, platys, yellow suckers, bronze corys, pepper corys and blue gouramis. A couple weeks went by without incident and then fish at random would be found dead on the bottom of my tank or completely disappear... the ones found dead would be nearly completely eaten by the suckers, at first I thought it might have been the gouramis until they died and it would only occur after dark. Eventually I caught my loach in the act of killing, and generally he wont eat his victioms, he might nibble on them later on after the suckers start stripping them, but he doesn't eat them initialy, I tried adding more loaches (roughly 2 inches in size) to try and give him some friends to calm him down,. but he just killed them too after a few weeks, picked them off one at a time. I've recently obtained a moonlight to help the other fish have a fighting chance of getting away cause it can get extremely dark at night, but I'm worried it wont stop his killings... is there anyway I can calm him down or am I going to have to get rid of him?
Clown Loach Predator
Moderator: LoachForumModerators
Re: Clown Loach Predator
Welcome to LOL.Mr_Woodchuck wrote:I have a clown loach in my tank roughy 4" in size, he spent a rather LONG time alone during a period where nbothing could live in my tank (how he survived is beyond me) either way a few months ago I cleane up the tank and ..........
It sounds like there could be many factors involved here.
Can you tell us more about the tank's history, it's size, volume, it's filtration, and the maintenance done on the tank?
I'm afraid you might get overwhelmed with everything that there is to know about keeping clown loaches, but this article should be a good start--
http://www.loaches.com/species-index/cl ... cracanthus
Once a fish has shown that he is a killer then it is usually easiest to put him in another tank, even if that tank is across town in a fish store.
Here is a trick that works with some species of Cichlids, no guarantee about Loaches:
Some Cichlids get very territorial about their caves and sand pits. They are defending food sources (algae grows on the rocks) and breeding locations (caves, sand pits... depends on the species)
When ANY animal (fish, mammal, bird...) is moved away from his territory he is unsure of who owns the place he has found himself, does not have his familiar territory to defend, and is less likely to attack other animals in the new area until he figures things out.
You could move the Clown Loach, or you could completely remodel the tank.
Remove all the fish to a couple of holding tanks. The Clown Loach will have to stay there for about 2 weeks. The others will be moved back to the main tank sooner (several days to a week).
New rocks and driftwood, or the same old rocks and driftwood in distinctly new lay out. Turn things over. If they were lying down, stand them up. If you have caves, make new ones in different locations. Replant the whole thing, reuse the plants, but in a new layout. Move the filters and power heads so the water flow is different. The more you can do to change the territory the better.
Let the tank settle, cloudiness dissipate. Add a little nitrifying bacteria, just in case. Dr. Tim's One and Only is good, or Tetra Safe Start. If you get just one bottle, use perhaps 1/4 to 1/3 of it each time you add fish, and store it in the fridge.
Move the fish back into this tank in this order:
Smallest, shyest, quietest fish first. Give them a few days to settle in and get to know the hiding places.
Middle-of-the-road fish. Give them several days to settle in.
Somewhat tougher fish. Give them several days to settle in.
By the end of two weeks all the other fish have been in the tank for long enough to settle any territorial issues, become social groups, understand the hiding places, and so on.
Now add the Clown Loach.
Watch like a hawk!
This method can work very well with Cichlids, partially because most are very territorial. The social dynamics of moving fish in and out of new territories often unsettles them enough that a re-arranging like this can work.
Some fish are simply bullies, and it has nothing to do with territory. Perhaps this lone Clown Loach was along for so long that he learned 2 things:
a) The whole tank belonged to him
b) Anything dropped into the tank is food.
I know you said he did not eat the fish he killed, so this seems to leave motive a) as his reason for killing the invaders.
Good luck.
Here is a trick that works with some species of Cichlids, no guarantee about Loaches:
Some Cichlids get very territorial about their caves and sand pits. They are defending food sources (algae grows on the rocks) and breeding locations (caves, sand pits... depends on the species)
When ANY animal (fish, mammal, bird...) is moved away from his territory he is unsure of who owns the place he has found himself, does not have his familiar territory to defend, and is less likely to attack other animals in the new area until he figures things out.
You could move the Clown Loach, or you could completely remodel the tank.
Remove all the fish to a couple of holding tanks. The Clown Loach will have to stay there for about 2 weeks. The others will be moved back to the main tank sooner (several days to a week).
New rocks and driftwood, or the same old rocks and driftwood in distinctly new lay out. Turn things over. If they were lying down, stand them up. If you have caves, make new ones in different locations. Replant the whole thing, reuse the plants, but in a new layout. Move the filters and power heads so the water flow is different. The more you can do to change the territory the better.
Let the tank settle, cloudiness dissipate. Add a little nitrifying bacteria, just in case. Dr. Tim's One and Only is good, or Tetra Safe Start. If you get just one bottle, use perhaps 1/4 to 1/3 of it each time you add fish, and store it in the fridge.
Move the fish back into this tank in this order:
Smallest, shyest, quietest fish first. Give them a few days to settle in and get to know the hiding places.
Middle-of-the-road fish. Give them several days to settle in.
Somewhat tougher fish. Give them several days to settle in.
By the end of two weeks all the other fish have been in the tank for long enough to settle any territorial issues, become social groups, understand the hiding places, and so on.
Now add the Clown Loach.
Watch like a hawk!
This method can work very well with Cichlids, partially because most are very territorial. The social dynamics of moving fish in and out of new territories often unsettles them enough that a re-arranging like this can work.
Some fish are simply bullies, and it has nothing to do with territory. Perhaps this lone Clown Loach was along for so long that he learned 2 things:
a) The whole tank belonged to him
b) Anything dropped into the tank is food.
I know you said he did not eat the fish he killed, so this seems to leave motive a) as his reason for killing the invaders.
Good luck.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
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Mr_Woodchuck
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:02 am
hey guys, thanks for taking the time to reply:
My tank's history is long and jaded so I'll try to keep it breif... It's a standard 4'x1'x1.5' roughly 180litres (sorry don't know what that is in gallons, I'm Australian, lol), it's current filtration is an Eden 328 submersible power filter and an undergravel filter with 2 power heads. It has a gravel substrate a few large red rocks, an ornamental ship wreck, an ornamental hollow stump (fake), it has several live plants including 3 different varieties of anubias, a small sea grass, an amazon sword, a blade and an aluminium. The tank get a 20% water change every 2 weeks and is treated with: water conditioner (crystal form, 1 teaspoon per 10 litres), aqua plus water conditioner (liquid form, 1 capful per 40 litres), KH+ Generator 7.0 (powder, 1 teaspoon per 10 litres) and Flourish excel organic carbon (liquid form, 1 capful per 40 litres during water change, and 1 capful a day every other day). And the tank has a constant KH of 3-4, never more then 4 never less then 3.
The tank itself has had a major overhaul in the last 6 months however, prior to that there were no live plants, the gravel filter used air stones, I had a waterfall filtration instead of submersible all plants were plastic and I only used the crystal and lquid water conditioners and only did a 40% water change every 6 weeks (god only knows how anything survived in that tank, lol), at that time I had 2 clown loaches (the big one in my current tank being the sole survivor of all my original fish), 3 blue gouramis, 2 bronze corys, 1 bristlenose catfish, 5 platys, 5 guppies, 3 yellow suckers and 1 redtail shark. Each fish died one by one, most due to the shark, the rest due to failing tank conditions including the horrible influx of blue green algae. At one stage only 1 blue gourami and 1 clown loach remained alive in the tank and everything in my tank was covered with a black layer of algae and my tank's ph readings were pushing 12s. I lost heart with my tank and let it go, only turning the light on for a couple hours a day so I could feed the remaining 2 fish (was feeding them tetra bits at the time), couldn't afford to change the tank conditions.
6 months ago I spent $300, changed the filtration, plants and water heater to what I have today, did a 90% water change (or near enough 2, the loach and gourami had to sit in a hollow in the stones to not be out of water) used a gravel cleaner to take the water out so I was removing over 2 years worth of muck build up from the gravel (nearly every bucket came out black, lol) got some glass scrubbers and bought some small scrubbing brushes, took everything out of my tank, scrubbed the glass and scrubbed down everything I was going to put back in, threw out the fake plants. Filled the tank back up, put the new filtration and heaters in and ran it as a bare tank for a few days to let the murk settle, then I added all the old items, tank ran plantless for about a week, then I put plants in, did a few 40% water changes over the following 2 weeks to get the levels right cause the KH was still far too high, then once it settled I repopulated the tank with fish. Since then loachy has killed his gourami friend and 1 of 2 new gouramis, all 5 new platys, 3 of 4 new yellow suckers, all 6 new clown loaches, 2 of 3 bronze corys, 5 of 9 pepper corys, 1 of 4 flame tetras and 1 of 3 bristlenose cats. He is becoming a very expensive liability, lol.
He only does his killing in the dark so I got a moonlight in the hopes that it's never totally dark enough for him to make a kill and the other fish can avoid him, my current tank population is him, 5 dalmation mollies, 5 red phantom tetras (he never touches the those tetras for some reason) 3 flame tetras, 1 blue gourami, 1 yellow sucker, 2 bristlenose cats, 1 bronze cory, 3 pepper corys and 3 glass cats. Don't have the option to move him so getting rid of him is the only choice if this latest plan doesn't work, moving him is a total last resort cause I love him, but I might have to if he's costing me too much, I just want to know how I can help calm him down or can I isolate him in that tank so he can't get to the other fish in order to calm him down enough to re-enter society? His current diet is fish flakes (ran out of tetra bits) would using different food help perhaps?
My tank's history is long and jaded so I'll try to keep it breif... It's a standard 4'x1'x1.5' roughly 180litres (sorry don't know what that is in gallons, I'm Australian, lol), it's current filtration is an Eden 328 submersible power filter and an undergravel filter with 2 power heads. It has a gravel substrate a few large red rocks, an ornamental ship wreck, an ornamental hollow stump (fake), it has several live plants including 3 different varieties of anubias, a small sea grass, an amazon sword, a blade and an aluminium. The tank get a 20% water change every 2 weeks and is treated with: water conditioner (crystal form, 1 teaspoon per 10 litres), aqua plus water conditioner (liquid form, 1 capful per 40 litres), KH+ Generator 7.0 (powder, 1 teaspoon per 10 litres) and Flourish excel organic carbon (liquid form, 1 capful per 40 litres during water change, and 1 capful a day every other day). And the tank has a constant KH of 3-4, never more then 4 never less then 3.
The tank itself has had a major overhaul in the last 6 months however, prior to that there were no live plants, the gravel filter used air stones, I had a waterfall filtration instead of submersible all plants were plastic and I only used the crystal and lquid water conditioners and only did a 40% water change every 6 weeks (god only knows how anything survived in that tank, lol), at that time I had 2 clown loaches (the big one in my current tank being the sole survivor of all my original fish), 3 blue gouramis, 2 bronze corys, 1 bristlenose catfish, 5 platys, 5 guppies, 3 yellow suckers and 1 redtail shark. Each fish died one by one, most due to the shark, the rest due to failing tank conditions including the horrible influx of blue green algae. At one stage only 1 blue gourami and 1 clown loach remained alive in the tank and everything in my tank was covered with a black layer of algae and my tank's ph readings were pushing 12s. I lost heart with my tank and let it go, only turning the light on for a couple hours a day so I could feed the remaining 2 fish (was feeding them tetra bits at the time), couldn't afford to change the tank conditions.
6 months ago I spent $300, changed the filtration, plants and water heater to what I have today, did a 90% water change (or near enough 2, the loach and gourami had to sit in a hollow in the stones to not be out of water) used a gravel cleaner to take the water out so I was removing over 2 years worth of muck build up from the gravel (nearly every bucket came out black, lol) got some glass scrubbers and bought some small scrubbing brushes, took everything out of my tank, scrubbed the glass and scrubbed down everything I was going to put back in, threw out the fake plants. Filled the tank back up, put the new filtration and heaters in and ran it as a bare tank for a few days to let the murk settle, then I added all the old items, tank ran plantless for about a week, then I put plants in, did a few 40% water changes over the following 2 weeks to get the levels right cause the KH was still far too high, then once it settled I repopulated the tank with fish. Since then loachy has killed his gourami friend and 1 of 2 new gouramis, all 5 new platys, 3 of 4 new yellow suckers, all 6 new clown loaches, 2 of 3 bronze corys, 5 of 9 pepper corys, 1 of 4 flame tetras and 1 of 3 bristlenose cats. He is becoming a very expensive liability, lol.
He only does his killing in the dark so I got a moonlight in the hopes that it's never totally dark enough for him to make a kill and the other fish can avoid him, my current tank population is him, 5 dalmation mollies, 5 red phantom tetras (he never touches the those tetras for some reason) 3 flame tetras, 1 blue gourami, 1 yellow sucker, 2 bristlenose cats, 1 bronze cory, 3 pepper corys and 3 glass cats. Don't have the option to move him so getting rid of him is the only choice if this latest plan doesn't work, moving him is a total last resort cause I love him, but I might have to if he's costing me too much, I just want to know how I can help calm him down or can I isolate him in that tank so he can't get to the other fish in order to calm him down enough to re-enter society? His current diet is fish flakes (ran out of tetra bits) would using different food help perhaps?
I think you might need to find a new home for the clown loach if you can't upgrade its living conditions. The poor lonely guy really needs a larger tank and needs to be kept in a group with at least 5 other clown loaches. Water changes should be done more frequently. I recommend two 20% water changes each week. He also needs to be given a variety of foods. There are many threads here that you can search for information on what they like to eat. Fresh foods are best.
I wish the loach the best of luck.
I wish the loach the best of luck.
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Mr_Woodchuck
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:02 am
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BotiaMaximus
- Posts: 536
- Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:54 pm
- Location: St. Pete, Florida
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Mr_Woodchuck
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:02 am
yeah he kills other loaches, he had 4 smaller loach buddies in the tank with him... over the last 4 weeks he's killed the all 1 by 1... was hoping they'd get a chance to grow a bit bigger (they were only 2") then they might've been able to stand up to him, unfortunately I don't have the cash to shell out for a more mature fish to put him in his place so I just hope I can calm him long enough to be put in his place by the up and comings.
where u from in oz, i'm Sale, Victoria. a great site for all your food and aquarium needs is www.aquariumproducts.com.au, ben is more than helpful if you have a query and everythings cheap, delivery is fast even though they are in queensland. if you are anywhere close by i've got a well established tank with larger clowns for him to play with.
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Mr_Woodchuck
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:02 am
-
Mr_Woodchuck
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:02 am
Just to give you guys and update, I have had no new deaths in the tank since I've gotten my moonlight fully operational (honestly I should have made the light myself it's extremely simple in design), and it's been running fully since sunday constantly when the main light is off, loachy seems to be calmer and other fish seem to be more lively, I'll know for certain if it has stopped his predatory nature in coming weeks when I attempt to replenish the schools he has destroyed 
.
.You need to think more about compatibility of the fish. You already have 25 fish and 10 different species. You'd have much more success if you kept larger schools and fewer species fit for the water parameters you have.
Clown Loaches are soft water fish that prefer warm water temperatures from 25 - 30 °C ( 77 - 86 °F )
Dalmation mollies do best in hard to brackish water.
Red phantom tetras prefer cooler water from 21 - 25 °C ( 69.8 - 77 °F ).
There are more methods that will help keep your fish healthy. You should quarantine any new fish in a separate tank. Quarantining is one of the top differences between beginner and expert fish keepers.
Setting up a 10 gallon tank quarantine tank shouldn't be expensive. It will save you money in the long run if you are constantly restocking your tank. If you lived near me, I'd gladly give you a 10 or 15 gallon tank and a good filter for free. I think quarantining and disease prevention will help you avoid some fish deaths. My guess is that the fish the clown loach "killed" were probably already weakened due to disease, stress, or poor water quality. Most fish do not handle changes in water parameters very well. Infrequent large water changes is the worst thing for fish. Frequent small water changes is best.
Clown Loaches are soft water fish that prefer warm water temperatures from 25 - 30 °C ( 77 - 86 °F )
Dalmation mollies do best in hard to brackish water.
Red phantom tetras prefer cooler water from 21 - 25 °C ( 69.8 - 77 °F ).
There are more methods that will help keep your fish healthy. You should quarantine any new fish in a separate tank. Quarantining is one of the top differences between beginner and expert fish keepers.
Setting up a 10 gallon tank quarantine tank shouldn't be expensive. It will save you money in the long run if you are constantly restocking your tank. If you lived near me, I'd gladly give you a 10 or 15 gallon tank and a good filter for free. I think quarantining and disease prevention will help you avoid some fish deaths. My guess is that the fish the clown loach "killed" were probably already weakened due to disease, stress, or poor water quality. Most fish do not handle changes in water parameters very well. Infrequent large water changes is the worst thing for fish. Frequent small water changes is best.
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