Bad 6 weeks for my Clowns

[Mr. Loach]

Since i work at a LFS (Maidenhead Aquatics) and being a lover of Oddballs, I get a lot of people bringing me fish that they want to rehome due to being too big for them but mainly for being too agressive. This has never been a problem for me since i always use the approch of 'You don't know for sure untill you've tried it' and everything i've read or heard about most fish has in fact been bs 90% of the time.

Back in April i adopted a 9'' Ornate Bichir - June i Adopted a 6'' Clown Knife fish and Blue Lobster - July i Adopted a 12'' Senegalus Bichir -- I also bought 4 Oscars in June. They have all lived happily with my Clowns without any problem at all.. except for the Clown Knife fish who decided that 13 small Clown Loach were easy targets - apart from that, no problems

Well.. the Oscars have now hit the 5'' mark and the Ornate has hit the 12'' mark and all hell has broken loose. The Clown Knife is now around 14'' and is no longer a problem any more. Since the beginning of August the Oscars have had 10 more Loach, and the Ornate has had 3.

Lucky for me, they have left the 3.5'' - 9'' Clowns well alone, but they're still having a go at the 3'' Yo-Yo's i recently bought.

Moral of the story is, don't put Clown Loach in with such fish unless they're 4'' or bigger (as long as you bought the other fish when they were small).

On the up side, in 3 weeks time my Loach get a brand new home in the form of a 1100 Litre aquarium ( 72*32*32 ) with 200 Litre sump ( 48*18*18 ) - It's a second hand old Marine tank which is a terrible state that will need a few days of TLC to clean, but it will be worth the effort (and it will only cost me £150 . I hope to add some before and after pics of the tank when i get it.

Cya all soon,

Cordi x

[OneWay]

You are not going to get any sympathy or understanding in here by mixing small loaches with large predators... you do not need a rocket scientist to tell you how that experiment is going to turn out.. warning colors and spines only do so much.

People here adore, love, their loaches; They feel every loach is precious... having a cavalier attitude about mixing them and letting them being eaten is like ordering a beef at a PETA conference.

Good luck with your experiments, but everyone could see this one coming a miles away.. large predators are just that,, and when they get big,, they eat what is smaller than them,, but I guess you won't believe it unless you have seen it personally since everything you read in books or online is wrong, right? I am glad for you loaches that you are getting a new tank, am sorry for your loaches that is has been 6 weeks so far and hope the rest survive until you new tank is set up. I have a feeling you will experiment with the new tank,, since the fish will get bigger in there.

I really do not have anything else to say to you.

OneWay

[Mr. Loach]

i have kept these fish together before (Oscars/Clowns/Bichir) and have never been a problem, the only difference this time is that my Clowns have been fed on Mussles as treats for a long time.

This is the problem, as the Oscars now have a taste for meat (which is why my other 4 Oscars don't get meat, only flakes and large pellets and happily live with small Blue Botia's, Zebra's, Corys and my other 8 Bichir).

Don't get me wrong, Clown Loach are my Fav. fish - and i was due to buy a brand new 7x2x2 for them about 6 months ago but unfortunatly i couldn't get the tank cause it was too large by 3cm... 3CM!! and i couldn't afford to get a custom made tank at the time.

it's a shame that people like OneWay use these sites and make assumptions just because someone made a mistake. i've only ever lost 6 loach before in the years i've kept them, 1 to white spot and 5 of my largest due to a power cut (wasn't enough oxygen in the tank) - but i guess that was also an ''Experiment'' and was all my fault

[andyroo]

I'll have to agree with One-Way on that, there Mr.L. Clowns in that situation are essentially costly feeders... Best save that sort of treatment for captive-bred stuff.
Having said that, in Uni we had 2 little clowns that wouldn't grow in a well-planted second-hand >100G with arowana, FW barracuda, FW moray, leaf-fish, snakehead and an assortment of knives and illegal swamp eels. The system was primarily fed on frozen squid and beef-heart, but friends would often come over with a big bag of feeder-comets and watch the show (read: carnage). All very... primal.
The little loaches had no trouble at all. We on a number of occasions saw the arro or clown knife lock-on/target them, approach, and break off at the last minute. I've suggested here before that clowns hold some sort of skin toxin that takes a little time to build up, but your observations/experiments would not support that theory as yours continued to suffer this predation over several weeks.
interesting.
Keep us posted on changes. Post some photos as well, but maybe on the "Freshwater" side.
A

[manthus]

except for the Clown Knife fish who decided that 13 small Clown Loach were easy targets - apart from that, no problems

Since the beginning of August the Oscars have had 10 more Loach, and the Ornate has had 3.

Lucky for me, they have left the 3.5'' - 9'' Clowns well alone, but they're still having a go at the 3'' Yo-Yo's i recently bought.

Moral of the story is, don't put Clown Loach in with such fish unless they're 4'' or bigger (as long as you bought the other fish when they were small).

Nobody is making assumption. It was what you said and how we responded. Of course you can twist your words but do understand that we are not stupid. No offence

[OneWay]

Tell me what I am assuming? you stated all the information I needed.. I did not assume you like oddballs or have large predators mixed with small fish... You state that 90% of what you have heard and read is bullshit,, but yet 26 loaches have been eaten by the fish that are ill advised to mix with smaller fish. These fish generally get worse as they grow, you can get lucky sometimes, but I always prefer the rule " if one fish can fit in the mouth of another, they should not be mixed."

1. being a lover of Oddballs, I get a lot fish being too big for them but mainly for being too agressive.

2. a 9'' Ornate Bichir, 6'' Clown Knife fish, Blue Lobster, 12'' Senegalus Bichir, 4 Oscars.

3. This has never been a problem for me since everything i've read or heard about most fish has in fact been bs 90% of the time. Except for the Clown Knife fish who decided that 13 small Clown Loaches were easy targets, and the Oscars have had 10 more Loaches, and the Ornate has had 3 loaches.

I am sorry you didn't get your new tank, things happen in RL, but you accepted the predatory fish, and tried to house them together because you "use the approch of You don't know for sure untill you've tried it" Sorry if I assumed that approach was experimenting and not an accidental.

Thank you for the advice of not keeping loaches smaller than 4" with 5" Oscars, 12" bichirs, or 14" clown knife fish.. I am glad you proven what you heard and read in those silly books to be true. You do realize that the predators will grow faster than the clowns and sooner or later they will eat your larger ones as well? Clowns grow much slower after the first 5".

Good luck and I am sorry you have to put up withe people like me.

OneWay

[andyroo]

"We see further by standing on the shoulders of giants".
Thus we ask, we research and then we experiment. 90% of fish husbandry literature is crap? Moreover there is variation in everything and we occasionally get lucky in bad or poorly researched decisions. We've all done it, and with mixed results and/or karmic bruising.
I'm immersed in one of these "experiments" myself right now (impulse-purchases, terrible things) and surely won't report it to this group. I know I've been a bit of a knucklehead, and am poised for relocating at the first sign of the expected- nothing lethal, don't worry. But... so far so good.
Either way, this is not science and shouldn't be the basis of professionally provided advise. I'd hope these experiments/experiences don't influence how you sell fish.

Apparently asking serious advice at Maidenhead Aquatics is a bit of a crap-shoot...

I'm not serious with the little jibe there Mr.L.
Still want to see photos.
A

[Mr. Loach]

I first want to say that i respect what most people say on this forum, and have no problems with people on other forums. BUT i am a little annoyed that people think that i am experimenting with my precious Clown Loach (and other loach i have in the tank with them) - OneWay said that, not me.

The fish i have in the tank with them had to go in there with them as my other tanks are too small to hold them, or add more, and the Clowns wern't ment to be in there for as long as they have been since some of the clowns are getting too large for the tank.

As for the new tank, only 2 weeks now till i get it.. and i've now seen it for the first time. It's been in the previous owners garage for the past 2 years and is covered in hard limescale and algae (gotta love ex marine tanks) and will need a lot of cleaning before it will be ready for water to be put back in it. With luck this should only take a couple of days though. Then all i'll need to get is the sump, and only 13 or so trips to work to get RO water - LOL

[lf11casey]

It kind of does sound like an experiment when you mix those fish together, when there is lots of literature that advises against this, on the 10% off chance everyone is wrong, as it sounds you believed. But we all do make mistakes sometimes and that can be forgiven if it is discontinued and you learn from it.
This is what irks me, I have no idea if you had added new clowns after the original were eaten, but you recently added new yoyo's to a tank you know has large predators that have a history of eating smaller loaches. You have basically added expensive live food to the tank and that's not cool in my book and is unforgivable.
And what the heck does feeding mussels to the clowns have to do with it? Does it make them taste better?

[NDininno]

I have to agree with the replies here. Mr. Loach it would behoove you to do a bit more research not only on the fish you keep but your audience when you post things like this. If you kept an animal rescue and the dogs got too big for their cage would you house them with lions because their habitat was big enough?

Use your noodle.

[Loaches4Life]

Well put OneWay

and take your yoyo out!

[LeStat]

If you kept an animal rescue and the dogs got too big for their cage would you house them with lions because their habitat was big enough?

Use your noodle.

An interesting analogy, very true.

[bigpow]

excuse me, but are you 12yrs old?

any normal adult with the least common sense would not mix small fish with large predators.
may I suggest mixing some dwarf puffers next?
at least, your predator fish will all die from eating the puffers.
how about mixing some cory cats next? may your predators all suffer from the back spine and die a slow painful death.


I never said anything harsh on this forum, but I guess there's always a 1st for everything.

[onebto]

I will be completely honest I thought long and hard over the last couple of days about responding to this post. I have decided to do so as I am some what confused Mr Loach and as a huge loach fan some what furious.

I think we can all agree that the people that use this Forum (well maybe the large majority) are very keen loach keepers, enthusiast.

So I am confused Mr Loach why would you post something like:

Mr Loach wrote and I quote "They have all lived happily with my Clowns without any problem at all.. except for the Clown Knife fish who decided that 13 small Clown Loach were easy targets - apart from that, no problems"

Would you not agree that was a really silly thing to post in a loach forum?

Mr Loach wrote and I quote " Since the beginning of August the Oscars have had 10 more Loach, and the Ornate has had 3" also a very unfortunate statement in a Loach forum?

Mr Loach wrote and i quote "Moral of the story is, don't put Clown Loach in with such fish unless they're 4'' or bigger (as long as you bought the other fish when they were small). "

This is not a revelation and to be honest I would not agree with your moral in full anyway!

What was the purpose of your post? because I can only come up with 2 conclusions:

1. You think it would be a laugh to wind up a bunch of loach enthusiasts?
2. Or an unfortunate story used to brag about getting a good deal on 1100 ltr tank?

Mr Loach wrote and I quote "'You don't know for sure until you've tried it' and everything I've read or heard about most fish has in fact been bs 90% of the time. "

I am really confused by this statement 90% what planet are you living on?

Oh I know a local fish shop!

Post note this is the 4th edit of my reply and the most polite I apologies if it causes any member any form of offence.

[PASoracco]

Clown Knife fish who decided that 13 small Clown Loach were easy targets

Since the beginning of August the Oscars have had 10 more Loach, and the Ornate has had 3.

it took the death of 26 fish over the course of several months to realize there was a problem? you are a disgusting monster. even your signature offends me.