amateur's question

fallen dragonkin · Post by **fallen dragonkin** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:15 pm

hi everyone. sorry to be asking questions right in my first post but i'm worried about my loach and need someone who has more experience with this type of fishies.
two years ago i bought a zebra loach due to having a snail infestation in my fishtank; at that time it was the one and only loach they had in the shop, so i thought i'd buy it another of it's kind when they get some more.
they never did and i spend two years searching through all the shops in my area for another zebra loach, as i didn't want the poor creature to live out it's life on its own. today i gave up the search and bought two loaches that look quite similar to the zebra loach; i thought my original loach would finally have someone to swim around with and some company but instead the two newcomers keep together like siamese twins, swimming side by side, nesting in the same place, while my original loach because of whom i got those two has gone into hiding, is nowhere to be seen and is probably quite frightened.
is there anyone here who has different kinds of loaches in smallish fishtank, and how do they get along with each other? is it possible the two newcomers will bully or frighten my old one?
thanks for any answers.
wendy

plaalye · Post by **plaalye** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:53 pm

Welcome Wendy and don't worry about asking questions. Some further info is needed to assess your situation and hopefully more folks will be along to comment. The forum has been a bit slow lately.
What size is your tank?Filtration?
Other fish in the tank?
Plants/hiding places?
Which species are the new loaches?
It's normal for new fish and old residents to take some time getting used to each other and learn to share favorite spots,food, etc. Most of us keep different loach species together but in good numbers(as described in the species index) of each species. A single b. striata will likely pal around with other loaches but should have the opportunity to be with members of it's own kind.

fallen dragonkin · Post by **fallen dragonkin** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:18 pm

thanks for taking the time to advise. the fishtank is fairly small, only 30 litres, it has just an ordinary fluval filter, and i have a small showl of neon tetras and hatchet fish, but the loach and the other fish are leaving each other alone.
quite a lot of hiding places, behind plant pots and under decorations and shells, my original loach likes hiding under them with only it's eyes sticking out, especially during daytime,i don't know if that's normal behaviour for all loaches or if mine is overly paranoid for some reason.
i am confused about the species of all my loaches.
the original one i got two years ago i was told is zebra loach, as for the two i bought today, there was no name at all. however, i just looked on the front page of this site and the photo of the zebra loach there is the spitting image of those two i bought today.. if they are i must have been misinformed about the species of the original one. they're definitely not the same, the original one is very slightly longer and slimmer and it's markings are very light brown or beige.
i just hope they will get along well and i really wish i could get one of the same kind for my old loach but now i'm not even certain of it's kind.

plaalye · Post by **plaalye** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:04 pm

30 liters is roughly 10 gallons, correct? I don't know what an ordinary fluval filter is, does it hang on the back or is it an internal filter? Anyhoo, in my opinion a 10 gallon tank is far too small for these fish if they are indeed botias. I'd say 3' minimum and for long term 4' to avoid stunting and give them room to swim and avoid each other when needed. Check the species index, the picture index can be helpful if you don't know where to start, and positively ID your fish. If you could post a pic we may be able to help.

fallen dragonkin · Post by **fallen dragonkin** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:24 am

the fishtank is on the small side, i'm getting a bigger one at christmas after i move to a bigger place. the fishies look okay this morning, my loach is in hiding in his favorite place under the shell, one of the new ones is hiding behind a plant pot and the second newcomer is nowhere to be seen, so i hope there was no fighting going on at night. i really hope they will get along well, it's just quite hard to find proper information about loaches in any of the books i've got.
the first three pictures are of my old loach, the fourth picture is one of the newcomers, it's not a very good picture.

Diana · Post by **Diana** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:30 am

The pictures do not show up for me.

30 liters is closer to 8 gallons, or 6.6 Imperial gallons.

Way too small a tank for all the fish you list. Good that you are getting a larger tank. I would suggest at least 100 liters.

Loaches of different species do not pal around with each other as much as different species of Cory. Some that may look similar might actually be much more aggressive or more timid than another, so they may not be a good match at all. This would be especially bad in a small tank where there is less room to get away from each other. Sounds like there are a lot of hiding places, though. This is very good!

fallen dragonkin · Post by **fallen dragonkin** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:20 pm

thanks for answer, i found out this morning something pretty bad happened at night, one of the new loaches somehow got out of the fishtank and i found it dead on the floor. i'm really upset about it and worried now, i don't know how it could have happened, the lid is closed at all times because hatchet fish jump, and it's quite high above the water. i've taped over the little feeding hatch in the lid and the little hole on the side where the cables go through, but it seems impossible task for the fish to get that high above water.
so now instead of one lonely loach i have two lonely loaches, as you said, they don't swim with each other as they would with their own kind, my old one continues staying under his favorite shell and the new one took residence behind a plant pot in the corner and they just ignore each other.

i'd still like to identify them, so i can keep trying to get each of them a playmate when i get a bigger tank in couple of months. if the pictures don't work, try going directly to the album here

http://cid-f4393c8100049b10.skydrive.li ... spx/Public

plaalye · Post by **plaalye** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:01 pm

Sorry you lost one Wendy, they're pretty ingenious about getting places that they're not supposed to!
Your first loach is a nemacheiline/schistura sp., not sure which one?See species list here
http://www.loaches.com/species-index/species-index
The other is a botia striata. They can be compatible (some schisturas can be aggressive) but are very different species. Botias are more in need of their own kind while many of the nemacheiline loaches do ok on their own. At least that's my take, someone with more experience may have more to say about that?
They both should have clean well oxygenated water so keep up with your water changes and do what you can to keep some water moving/absorbing oxygen. Do you test your water parameters?

raecarrow · Post by **raecarrow** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:10 pm

I have seen some loaches mis-labled as Zebras before. Most commonly mislabled loach Botia Dario which should be labled as a Bengal or Queen Loach http://www.loaches.com/species-index/bo ... term=dario I can't see your pictures but from the description I think that is what you probably have.

I was originally introduced to loaches by getting a lone Zebra (an actual B.Striata) to take care of my snail problem. I started reading about him and found that the poor guy needed friends. Unfortunately, I have been unable to find any buddies for him. So I got him a tiny Yoyo for a buddy and the transformation was almost immediate. These guys would have fun swimming around the tank side by side for HOURS. I have since expanded my tank (which I need to do again) and have gotten 4 more yoyos and a lone Kubotai who I found in my fave LFS and wanted to give a home. The funny thing is that my first little yoyo has not grown a mite since I got him (besides getting a little bit of a budda belly) and he seems more comfortable around his first zebra buddy. The Kubotai also prefers hanging out with the Zebra and the Little yoyo to hanging out with the larger yoyos.

I think that your problem with species mixing probably comes from the fact that B.Darios are a more placid and less energetic species (generally speaking) than B.Striata. I have found that my B. Striata is the fastest loach in my tank and is often seen zooming around at great speed. I would first invest in a larger tank and then find buddies for your little shy guy and your lone Striata. I would also put many hiding places in the tank so that the fish will feel more comfortable and thus will come out into the open more often. (though this will probably not happen if he doesn't have buddies).

Good luck, and happy fish keeping!

Graeme McKellar · Post by **Graeme McKellar** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:21 pm

The last fish looks like a Botia Rostrata to me.
Graeme.

fallen dragonkin · Post by **fallen dragonkin** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:41 pm

i appreciate all the advice. i have been unable to exactly identify my first loach, but i'd say some of the schistura fish look most like him. it's not botia dario, that looks very different.
when i bought it two years ago, i was told they like to swim about in pairs, that's why i spent all this time searching for another one like it, but if it is schistura, hopefully it's not too unhappy on it's own. it has a rather wild manner but i'd not say aggressive in the sense of ever actually physically touching my other fish, just sometimes chases the tetras around a bit but nowhere near as they chase each other. my tetras are vicious.

the other loach is definitely botia striata, and very sociable showling fish i'd say, they had at least hundred of them in the petshop and they swam about in a huge showl side by side, so now i have to definitely get some more.

i wish i'd have thought of researching the internet rather than books earlier, i could have saved myself all the worry about having to get company for my original loach.. now i have to get some company for the one that was supposed to be it.

plaalye · Post by **plaalye** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:46 pm

Honestly Wendy, I'd consider taking the lone striata back to the shop, then you can get more when you have a suitable tank.

fallen dragonkin · Post by **fallen dragonkin** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:53 pm

i already thought about that but would they take it back? i could call them though before going there.

Diana · Post by **Diana** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:25 am

Pictures show up this morning!
Schistura type and Zebra Loach.
Return the Zebra Loach, or else get a bigger tank right away.
Irresponsible store to sell you a fish for such a small tank.

The plant is Fittonia verschaffeltii, not an aquatic plant. I have grown them with their leaves out of the water, and the roots in the tank, but not for long. They are good house plants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fittonia

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