Intro and Problem

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Katy
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Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:43 am
Location: Vermont, USA

Intro and Problem

Post by Katy » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:09 am

Hi there, I'm Kate.

Here's the deal: somehow my Dear Husband (DH) and I were in the pet store getting supplies for our goldfish, who had come in for the winter. We ended up in the basement "just to take a look" at the fish. I've never even heard of loaches before, was looking at other fish,but DH has had Kuhlis and a weather loach in the remote past, and said "loaches are cool and they don't need a heated tank", and soon we were leaving with a really cool-looking polka-dotted loach and a pl*co.

Get home and hit the internet. Uh oh. Add a heater and two more kubotai to keep Maggie company. Find the LOL site, and we laugh and roll our eyes at the "loachaholic" title line and the dismissal of other aquarium inhabitants as "dither fish" (cue the dark, foreboding music) Find we are spending a lot of time researching loaches. Then, about a week later, little Suzzy disappears without a trace. We are both HEARTBROKEN -- look everywhere, take apart the filter -- no Suzzy. And 3 loaches aren't enough to make a shoal anyway, so we go back to the petstore -- and they are out of Kubotai. :( She promises to order more for us.

Meanwhile, it is clear that 20 gal tank is not big enough for our loaches, and standard 55 gal or larger won't fit the space we have (due to a couple of weight-bearing pillars), and all of a sudden DH is researching building tanks.

Just over a week after first fish-store trip, and we have ordered glass and bought silicone, and we build a 54 gal that is only 44" long, and ordered a Rena Filstar SP3 (based on Diana's recommendation), bought nice fine sand for substrate.. and now I am ready to get the UV filter and some powerheads, and we are already measuring the next-door (other side of beam) space for the net tank and thinking about hillstreams for a third tank.

Sigh.

So, the fish stores really need to have big warning signs (in addition to the NoClownsinaCube signs) that say : "WARNING! MORE ADDICTIVE (AND EXPENSIVE) THAN HEROIN! PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK!"

The 54 is ready and water-tight, waiting on the filter to arrive and get set-up, and I am having to really talk DH down from going right out and getting a school of Yo-Yos (not enough room) already.

Questions (I realize a lot of these are FAQs but the search function brings up a thousand hits on every search I do):

Recommendations for UV filter?

How do you set up the power-heads to get a good flow going, and what are good brands?

Where did Suzzy go? No remains found, tank is covered, don't think she could jump out!

How does one know how much food is enough and not too much. Our loaches are all still young -- largest still under 2", and I know we are supposed to feed more when young and growing, but they will eat as much as we can feed them, in less than 5 min, and beg for more, and I think we could do that all day. We are feeding frozen bloodworms and brine shrimp, sinking pellets, random veggies (they LOVE brussel sprouts), have algea pellets on the way...

What plants other than Java fern and J ava moss are relatively loach-resistant?

How does one construct a water-bridge, for when we build the second tank in the series?

What are reliable mailorder companies for aquatic plants? Are these grown in a away that they are unlikely to introduce nasties into our tanks?

And mail-order for fish?? Makes me really nervous, but we live in rural VT and local pet stores are pretty bad. (not to worry - -that is a long-term plannign question, no new fishies till we get current ones settled)

Holy cow. Less than a month ago we just had one lonely gold fish in a tank....

Thanks for all the help!

Kate
Last edited by Katy on Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Katy
Posts: 280
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:43 am
Location: Vermont, USA

ps

Post by Katy » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:16 am

also -- what is a good TDS meter? Have been lookign at them online too.

BTW -- ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates steady about 10

NancyD
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Post by NancyD » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:18 am

Welcome to LOL! I'm impressed that you started right out building a tank, that's not something I'd do. I can only answer some of your questions.

I have a cheap UV that I only used for a few months, it now is in the basement. I don't think they're a real high priority.

For plants in low-med light anubias & crypts are nice & easy. I have gotten some plants from people on other forums & LFS.

I have Maxijet & Aquaclear powerheads. I either have them aimed the tank length or angled toward the front glass, not too low or they blow sand around. You just have to play with them. Drs Foster has a real deal on shipping right now $5.99 no matter what you get. Another place to check is http://www.kensfish.com/index.html for food & equipment.

I have only gotten fish twice by mail from these guys
http://www.invertzfactory.com/stocklist.htm. Also http://www.franksaquarium.com/ has a good reputation.

I think Suzy may have jumped if there are no tight little spaces she could fit in, loaches can be very good hiders.

edit: I got a HM TDS3 on ebay for <$20 shipped
Image

Katy
Posts: 280
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:43 am
Location: Vermont, USA

Post by Katy » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:46 am

Thanks Nancy!

I am surprised as well at the tank building -- when DH told me the stuff he was finding I figured it was just some idea that he would play with for a while before moving on. But, as I said, the standard sizes don't fit our space and the loaches need more room :)

Think I'll put in my Drs F+S order later today (3rd one this week... sigh) :)

saint_dracula
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Post by saint_dracula » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:22 pm

I can answer one of your questions: that of plants. I can wholeheartedly recommend Anubias, any species. I have been keeping fish for about 2 years and many plants have come and gone (mostly in the form of a pulpy mess); Anubias nana however have soldiered on. They grow slowly but they WILL survive! I have heard that these plants aren't delicious either.

plaalye
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Post by plaalye » Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:33 pm

Welcome Katy! Great you're doing your best to heed the good advice available here and do right by your fish!
Anubias are very hardy plants and lately I've been finding some very nice ones at PETCO of all places for $4.99, a very good price. I also have crypts( they may melt when first planted in a new tank but will usually come back), hygrophila, and valisnera growing in my tanks with little or no effort.
Have a look at koralia powerheads along with those already mentioned. Pricey but use less energy & emit less heat. The current they put out is less concentrated which can be good or not, depending on what you're trying to accomplish.
I have a cheapo UV, Green killing machine from Petsmart. I only use it when needed for quarantine but others have had good results with the Tetra turbo twist I believe.
I've also had good results with invertzfactory for shipping fish.
I have the same TDS as Nancy, no complaints.
I've also had fish disappear. It's possible they die for whatever reason and are consumed by other inhabitants. Check for ammonia just in case.
I don't think 3 b. kubotai is a bad number to keep for now until you get your new tank going. Might be better than squeezing more into the smaller tank?
I'd really recommend setting up a ten gallon or so for a Q-tank for future purchases. Maybe the most important thing I've learned, the hard way!

Good luck!

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chefkeith
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Post by chefkeith » Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:41 pm

This story sounds familiar. I got hooked on loaches about the same way. I keep on moving furniture out of my house to accommodate the tanks that I build. Things that I love most about fish aquariums- learning more about science and nature, the DIY projects, and the progression. The fish and plants in the aquariums depend upon us, but in nature we completely depend upon them. When looking for answers, you only find more questions. :-)

A few people here, including myself, can probably help you with the water-bridge question. I might be back here Tomorrow.

Katy
Posts: 280
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:43 am
Location: Vermont, USA

Post by Katy » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:30 pm

Thanks everyone!

Latest Drs F+S order in, looked at LPS this aft but really crummy plants :(

We are looking for a 10G to use as a QT, but will use the 20 as QT until then. And based on all the useful advice here we are treating all current loaches for parasites before moving them to the big tank.

I've been reading through the forum, and am amused by some of the anti-goldfish comments. I was never much interested in them , but DH liked them, but now our little goldfish that started this all thinks he is a loach!!!! Even piles into the caves with them. Very cute.

The algae tabs came today, and are clearly the favorite food so far. Non-stop clicking (and fighting) till gone. Pl*co and GF part of the scrum, too.

Diana
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Post by Diana » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:25 pm

we are already measuring the next-door (other side of beam) space for the next tank and thinking about hillstreams
This is MTS; multiple tank syndrome.
Yes, Loaches are addicting.

Water Bridge is a connection between 2 tanks that the fish can swim through.
I set them up rather simply:

2" PVC (I have some clear PVC) with 45* angles to make a gentle bend. 2 fittings of 45* make a 90* turn.
Think of an upside-down U with the bottom part stretched out.

In the left tank is 8" of vertical PVC, the first 45* is mostly under water, then the next 45* rests on the end rim of the tank.
Then the bridge, about 3' long.
The right tank mirrors the left tank: 45* rests on the end rim, then the next 45 is under water, and 8" of PVC hangs down into the tank.

I use a fountain pump to keep the water moving. Gravity helps. The tanks are at the same elevation. As the pump moves water out of the left tank, and into the right tank, water flows through the water bridge from right to left. The water stays the same elevation in the two tanks.

When the bridge is first assembled it is full of air.
I put the water bridge in the right position, make sure both ends are below the water.
I put a piece of air line inside the water bridge so that one end is in one corner of the water bridge, and the other leads out of the tank.
I inhale through the air line, removing air from the water bridge. In a surprisingly short time the water bridge is full of water.
Then I turn on the pump.

Some fish are so curious they start investigating it right away. Others seem to find it by accident.

An earlier version had 90* fittings. Rather a tight bend. Still, I had a Gourami who could claim quite a few 'frequent traveler miles' as he went back and forth. He had to do quite a lot of back and forth moves to make it around that 90* bend.

The long part of the pipe in the tank (8") allows me to do a water change with no fear of breaking the siphon that is going on in there. In fact, when I do a water change the water in the two tanks stays level, both tanks dropping as I remove the water. Refill is the same. The rising water level in one tank is rapidly duplicated in the other tank.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

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Keith Wolcott
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Post by Keith Wolcott » Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:01 am

Welcome to LOL.

I have only made one water bridge, but it works well. See it, and how it was made, on page 12 at http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php ... &start=165.

Katy
Posts: 280
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:43 am
Location: Vermont, USA

Post by Katy » Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:36 am

Holy Cow! (or "JEESUM CROW!" as we say here in VT) Took me a while to get through all 17 pages of that, but WOW!!!! (and as I was reading that, DH has been geeking out on the main site, falling in love with even more loach species, and researching water distillation on the wood stove (We have very hard water too -- I just ordered peat for the filter, too))

We would love to do geothermal, too, but got an estimate of $8,000 just to get the floor heat in the main room (live in an old one-room school house), before even doing the geothermal. And now we are spending all our money on fish stuff, so cant afford to heat our house. Sigh. That little $4 Maggie has already cost us many hundreds of dollars (and who knows how many hours) and we are only a couple of weeks in. The LPS needs to replace the neon sign above the stairs that says "Aquariums" with one that says "Abandon hope all ye who enter here!"

Have mopani wood soaking in the tub for a few days.

What kind of foam do you use under the tank? Need to go out and get that today before we start filling the new tank.

I took out the powerhead from my F+S order as DH thought we would get enough flow from the Rena + the Fluval 305, but I am not so sure. Also wondering about aeration. How does one add an air intake into the line to get good aeration? Most of the stuff I see promoted for aeration seems to add bubbles to the water, rather than oxygen. Clearly I have a LOT to learn!!!!

Another question for Diana (who has written about it, but anyone can answer): What meds specifically do you treat your quarantine fish with? You mention antiparasite and antibiotic, but not which specifically.

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Keith Wolcott
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Post by Keith Wolcott » Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:42 am

Katy- You didn't have to read the whole thing.

The foam that I got is insulation sheathing made by Owens Corning. It comes in a pink 4 by 8 foot sheet (I got mine at Home Depot). I used it under my 300 gallon aquarium, but I did not use any foam under my smaller tanks (two 75 gallon and a 20 gallon). If you have a clean, flat surface, no foam is necessary. For the larger tanks it is harder to achieve a completely flat surface so the foam is just a bit of insurance.

Katy
Posts: 280
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:43 am
Location: Vermont, USA

Post by Katy » Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:02 pm

Keith Wolcott wrote:Katy- You didn't have to read the whole thing.
Kinda like I didnt "have to" get addicted to loaches overnight? :roll:

:) Just back from another pet store ("local" is relative here in the boonies -- gotta go to NH or over a mountain) -- blew another $75 but managed to squeak out of there without getting anymore fish. They had much nicer plants, but most not labelled and the person working there was less than helpful or informed, so hope I guessed right on the ID.

They had a few tiny loaches labelled "zebra loaches" but looked a whole lot more like YoYos than striata. Fortunately convinced DH they were not for us to bring home today....

Anyone have Blue Rams? Are they compatible with loaches? Looking for dither fish....

Katy
Posts: 280
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:43 am
Location: Vermont, USA

Loach Disease

Post by Katy » Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:11 pm

Loach Disease: another symptom:

Last night we were having dinner and I asked DH if he wanted more salt for the soup. he replied: "No thanks, it's bad for my scales" :roll:

Is there a twelve-step group?

Have started treating the tank for ich -- though we haven't seen any yet, the biggest guy does flash a lot, and we decided to treat for ich and parasites (next) before moving them into the new tank, which is cycling.

Another question: (maybe I shoudl start a new thread? ) Compatable dither fish for the kubotai? We were looking at ghost glass catfish, and debauwi catfish, and threadfin rainbows. Any thoughts?

DH has already asked the fish store to order some zebra loaches (striata) -- (he told me after I had already added the Rid_Ich) so will be adding more fish to the QT before the cycle is done. Oh, well, We've removed almost all the gravel, and most of the rocks etc from the tank, but they still seem to have plenty of places to hide (not that they ever seem to want to)

I am so glad this site is here -- so much useful information!!! Thank you all for your help!

Katy
Posts: 280
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:43 am
Location: Vermont, USA

Update

Post by Katy » Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:59 pm

Now it is 6 months after our first fateful trip to the fish store, and we have 7 tanks: a 120 gallon, a 55 gallon, a 40 gallon, a 20 gallon, a 29 gallon, and 2 tens. :shock:

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