Loaches Online Forum

They are beautiful fish, and fun to watch at that. I will definately try to take weekly pics of the stripe patterns.

Just recently acquired some of these guys and boy are they expensive here in hawaii... But well worth the $$ got 4 to add to my 125g tank. They spark it up by constantly foraging for food along side of my sids.

I know this is an old debate - Distinguishing between juvinile Botia.

How can you differentiate between Histrionica and Emperor?

I bought some Histrionica recently with an expensive price. We dont often get them here but they were twice the price of the Rostrata, Kubotai and Striata I have previously seen. I was wondering if they were Emperors. Has the price of Emperors in other parts of the world reduced recently?

More seriously is there a scientific way to determine seperate species rather than subjective speculation.

Even Rostrata can look similar. I guess it is like Kuli. It comes down to collection point.

I remember TDO article which talked about regional variation as a point of differencing.

Hi Robert, some good points there , and I guess the answer would be to differentiate by visual observation ? my own reasons to doubt them being Emperors and leaning towards Histrionica is the pattern displayed by the fish themselves , however they do look slightly different in that the colour seems bolder , perhaps a colour variety ?

What for me seems to be the main reason for doubt is looking at the pics accompanying HH's original description , the small specimen looks different in pattern to the fish in Dconnors and Emma's pics , it looks more like a juvenile Rostrata , in that it has the twin bar pattern , which for me looks quite different in appearance to Histrionica !

Its only my opinion , Graeme seems adamant that they are Emperors , which after all is what these forums are for, debate !

As for price ,I wouldn't enter into that , because for me they [ Dconnors fish ] are really nice specimens of whatever they are

Its an interesting thread is this

How are the fish doing ?

This post is directed at no one in particular but this type of confusion is exactly the reason why I have grown so skeptical regarding taxonomy in general. Who is to say one group of fish is to be considered part of one species or two separate species? Regional distribution of different populations of the same species is completly ignored and fish that are actually the same are classified as "different." For this reason I think loach taxonomy is in complete disarray. I still cannot follow Kottelat's argument for breaking up the Genus Botia into Yasuhikotakia, Chromobotia, etc. It makes no sense, and I am too stubborn to follow some scientist's decree blindly.

Anyway, just thoughts.

M. Ophir

Its a fair point Mike, a lot more work needs doing for sure. I have photos of fish that I have bought as rostrata that have turned in to kubotai add to that the fact that very few people think that sidthimunki and nigrolineata shouldnt have been added to Yasuhikotakia, you are only stating what a hell of a lot of people are thinking.

I suppose loaches are a lot like Rasboras, Garra's and even Crossocheilus to name only a few where a lot more work needs to be done

Mike Ophir wrote:This post is directed at no one in particular but this type of confusion is exactly the reason why I have grown so skeptical regarding taxonomy in general. Who is to say one group of fish is to be considered part of one species or two separate species? Regional distribution of different populations of the same species is completly ignored and fish that are actually the same are classified as "different." For this reason I think loach taxonomy is in complete disarray. I still cannot follow Kottelat's argument for breaking up the Genus Botia into Yasuhikotakia, Chromobotia, etc. It makes no sense, and I am too stubborn to follow some scientist's decree blindly.

Anyway, just thoughts.

M. Ophir

It's nothing new Mike! This is just the state of it..... It has been for decades!

Hmmm. I bought 2 Botias at a store named Zebra loach,but it doesnt look like the zebra loach at all to my suprise they were emperor loaches and they only cost me 2.50$ whats up with that? Im pretty sure they are Emperor loaches I will try to upload pics to show you guys.

welcome. i doubt they are emperors as they are hard to import. more likely to be histronica. emperors come from a dangerois area.

Where are you and where did you buy the fish? Definitely post the picture.

dconnors wrote:They are beautiful fish, and fun to watch at that. I will definately try to take weekly pics of the stripe patterns.

INDEED they are very very nice ..but not easily available here in SG I was LFS hopping bout 3 weeks ago when i stumbled into a pair of this beautiful healthy specimen(claimed to be Emperor Loaches by the LFS owner..and hard to come by) around 5-6inches in size..After a very close look..it dawned to me that it could be.. Histrionicas!! but heck, they are gorgeous.The price was rather steep but after some bargaining, the deal is done!! Now residing happily in my 522. Still hunting for Emperors!! BTW Hi to Everybody

welcome! you can telk their emperor by the unnusul tail markings. also 522 litres or gallon?

ClownLoachSharky wrote:welcome! you can telk their emperor by the unnusul tail markings. also 522 litres or gallon?

Hi CLS,

522(LXBXH) is the size of my tank measuring in feet and about just over 500litres/134gallon

oh, i see what other fish do you have, any pics?