Ick

[fishface]

Hi, I am new to tank keeping and have a question about treating ick in Dojo Loaches. I have a 30 gallon tank with..

2 spotted dojo
1 gold dojo
1 betta
4 tetra

I think my betta has ick. He has 3 very small white dots that kind of look like sand on him. I did a 15% water change yesterday and I didnt see them then. should i put him in a quarantine tank or if it is ick is my tank contaminated. And how do treat loaches for ick? do you use somthing different because they are scaleless fish? any help or advice anyone can give me is very appreciated.

Thanks, Caroline

[QueenDustBunny]

I just finished treating my tank for ick. IMO, it's too stressful to take out the dojo's and treat them separately from the rest of the tank. (All the fish need to be treated not just the visibly infected one.) I used Ick Gaurd at half strength (per directions). It did take 2 doses, but all's okay now. I am still fairly new to loaches so I'm sure that others will have other opinions. Good luck.

[suya1]

Make sure you don't use too much of the Ich medicine when treating the water b/c it will do more harm than help. Using the salt water treatment sometimes helps. Good luck with curing your fish.

[fishface]

Suya1 this may sound like a stupid question but what is the salt water treatment?

Thank you QueenDustBunny, I will check into the medication

[shari2]

Time to put up an ick sticky...please.

[mikev]

Concuring with Ich Guard halfdosing -- worked great for me more than once.

Higher temperature usually speeds up the process (regardless of which med you use).

With Ich you need to treat the entire tank, not individual fish.

Suya1 this may sound like a stupid question but what is the salt water treatment?

NaCl (table salt) also works. IMO, this is not the best way, especially when loaches are involved, but for some people this is the way.

I found it better to add *a little* salt when treating with Ich Guard. The rationale here is that salt also happens to be an Ich Guard ingredient, and the reason for half-dosing is more Victoria Green (one other ingredient), rather than salt.

hth
--

Finally, someone will probably comment on the fish mix in your tank: dojos are not tropical and are more suitable for unheated tanks, perhaps with goldfish instead of tetras. They will tolerate tropical tanks, but this is not their environment, and not healthy long-term.

[fishface]

Thanks Mikev I am going out to get the ich guard today.

As far as the fish in my tank go I was told that the tetra I have were ok with water temps in the 70 to 78 range. My plan was to move my betta into a 5 gallon tank in the next couple of months because I plan to keep my tank at about 75 degrees. I live in Atlanta and with the heat we have been having my tank at its coolest is 79. Do i need to get another big tank for the betta and tetra(my husband is gonna kill me) or will the tetra be ok at 75? I fell in love with the loaches and really planned my tank for them, but it would be irresponsible for me to sacrifice one fish for another. Any advice you can give me, hints, ect.. I want to do the best that i can.

Thanks Fishface

[mikev]

On good environment for Dojo's:

You may want to post this question as a separate thread so that someone who actually keeps dojos notices and responds.

The basics are that you need lower temp, ideally seasonal temp changes, some current: this is not a good environment for the most tetras (did you ever mention which tetras?). OTOH, your tetras may be ok with many other loaches, and there are a plenty of other exciting loaches out there in addition to dojos.

IMHO, you also need a larger tank for the dojos....maybe one option to consider is getting a larger tank for them, and replacing them in the 30g with kuhlis?---they will be quite happy in a 30g tropical tank.

[suya1]

I thought table salt was supposed to be a bit too much for fish, so I use aquarium salt that comes in a milk carton.

[shari2]

You are right. Aquarium salt is better. Table salt with Idodine (iodized salt) is a definite no-no.

I have used Kosher salt when raising brine shrimp since you go through ALOT of salt doing that, but the ingredients on the box simply state, "Salt". No additives of any kind.

[newshound]

Time to put up an ick sticky...please.

I posted this exact same thing with the arrival of the new board.
Personally I'd use coppersafe with a boost of the tank temp...but I think your loaches like cooler water?
I am not a dojo keeper.
Ick sticky good

[Fishhead]

Caroline,

In my experience, the "Salt water treatment" works best for treating ich.. I do not own Dojo's, but in the past, I have used this treatment successfully on my own loaches.

I turn the temperature up to 82 degrees and add 1 tsp per gallon of aquarium salt to the tank. Do not raise the tank temperature more than 5 degrees per hour or you will stress your fish or just kill them from shock. The ammount of salt to use varies from whom you ask, depending upon whom you ask. See this article for one example;
http://www.loaches.com/salt.html

Some people have used "Quick Cure" with results, but I have also seen LFS kill entire batches of fish with this stuff (The treatment did nothing, and my intended to be purchased, Schistura mahnerti loaches all died, slowly). I personally would not recommend Coppersafe because I understand this medicine can completely kill any biological filtration in your tank making all fish in the tank more susceptible to every other kind of bacteriological illness after the initial illness has gone away. The product "Clout" may also be a "No No" because scaleless fish (such as loaches) are sensitive to treatments that deliver concentrated or accelerated doses for a faster cure..

If you must use some treatment in the tank, I would perform a 30% water change, turn up the temp, use the "Salt Water Treatment" and then add a half dose of Melafix to the tank in that order. Melafix can be located at LFS, but be careful when using it. Melafix is oxygen depleting (but with no other ill effects I've found), so make sure you use an extra airstone or three when using it. Treat the whole tank. See, ich is almost always present in the water.. When your fish are stressed, they lose some of thier slime coat and become susceptible to the ich protozoan.. Slime is good..

See articles;
http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/whitespot.htm
http://www.thekrib.com/Diseases/ich.html

The article also explains that ich is at it's most vulnerable when it is in the water and not attached to your fish, so remember to treat your fish for 11 to 14 days with the elevated temps and salt (when the little white cysts burst, they release more ich protozoa into the water). I use a little bit of Melafix because it is supposed to help healing rates of skin scrapes and fin damage, so after the ich is dead, the wound closes up faster and the fish doesn't get reinfected by remaining ich protozoa in the water or from other maladies. Do another 30% water change at 7 days and then again after the 14'th day. Make sure you start thinking about your water quality more often. Unless you actively spook your fish on a day to day basis, poor water quality is usually what got them infected in the first place.

Fishhead

[mikev]

Some people have used "Quick Cure" with results, but I have also seen LFS kill entire batches of fish with this stuff (The treatment did nothing, and my intended to be purchased, Schistura mahnerti loaches all died, slowly).

Not very surprised, if they followed the directions. It appears that Meth Blue and Formalin are quite deadly for *lizard-type* loaches (close enough to schistura), and Malachite Green needs to be halfdozed.

Still IMHO not a reason to use salt-only, it is best to hit Ich from more than one direction at once. Malachite Green based stuff, or even Quinine (I tried this too---worked, but too slow for my taste, so I'd consider it for hillstreams only).

[fishface]

Hi Everyone. Thanks so much for all of your input, but i have a question(it will probably sound silly but please educate me). First what is an "ick stickey"? and how should i put it up.

Ok so i went to my lfs all three of them and none of them had the ich guard. I was talking to people in the fish department and came across a guy who kept loaches in the past who recommended kedon rid ich+. I read the bottle and it tells you that it is safe for most scaleless fish including loaches, but caution should be used. Started treatment early yesterday and all is well, at least so far. Please keep your fingers crossed, if not for me than for my fish. Thank you everyone for your input, i really felt so lost about what to do and all of you gave me some confidence.

Mikev thanks for the input on my tank i will make a new post to see what other dojo keepers think.

Fishhead thanks for the info on salt treatment if this ever happens again i may try this fix. as far as poor water quality goes, well believe it or not things were testing out as close to perfect as you could get. I dont understand what happened or why, it could be water but i do test cause i was so afraid of messing things up. Any other thoughts?

Again thanks everyone i will let you know how things turn out.


Fishface

[shari2]

Hi fishface,

The reference I made to an 'ick sticky' was because we get frequent questions on here about ick. Up at the top of the main thread page are what are called sticky's. They are threads with information that no further posts go into.

The regulars have been planning to do site updates since this forum switched over from the old format to this one and putting up a sticky with information on how to treat loaches with ick was one of the first things that was mentioned as needed. Martin recently put up a sticky with a link to commonly asked questions about feeding. Eventually, the group will get around to putting one up for ick. I was just poking at them a bit.

Sorry if the comment was disquieting to you. It was not meant in any way to discourage you from asking questions.