Clown Loach Size and Age and When do I need to upgrade?

[mattydoughts]

I have a Fluval 190 Litre corner tank similar to the Trigon 190 corner tank.

Being new to the game I have been mis-sold 2 clown loaches. I new they get a 'nice' size but didn't realise how big.
I know it would be better if I could get 1 or 2 more but my question is in the tank I have how long would it be until I need to get a bigger tank.
The 2 I have are 2" at the moment so how fast do they grow and how quick will I need to upgrade if I had 3 or 4 in the tank.

Maybe if people can put on their loaches size and AGE too out of curiousity. As there is lots on size but not so much on how old they are to go with the size.

[millsn]

Can't help you on age, I don't know how old mine were when I got them. I would say that if you only have two, they'll get fairly quickly miserable. I had five, lost two and the remaining three weren't happy until two morewere added and happier still with 7 total.

[chefkeith]

The growth rates vary greatly.

Some of my clowns are growing quite slowly in my 400 gallon multi-tank set-up. I purchased 25 - 1/2" clowns about 5 years ago. The smallest are currently about 2", while the largest are about 4". They've been in the same tanks, with the same water parameters, since I got them.

I think growth rates depend on their genetic make-up. If they have large parents, then they'll likely have faster growth rates. If their parents were small, then they'll likely be small also. I've heard that some clowns will grow to about 9" in just a few years and up to 18" long during their lifespan.

A tank with a nice foot print is important to their physiology whether they grow to be large or small. Clown loaches are curious and social by nature. Exploring every nook and cranny in the tank is part of their daily routine. If they live in a small tank, they probably won't be very active. Give them more space, they'll be more active and much healthier.

Excellent water quality and consistent water chemistry is a must also. You'll need to learn to keep the Nitrate levels low and TDS consistent.

To be a more successful fish keeper you'll probably want to learn and practice quarantine procedures for new arrivals. You'll also need a quarantine tank for sick or injured fish.

[Diana]

1" of Clown Loach = 1' of tank. You can keep several in a tank, of course. It is better for them to be with friends.

So... you could keep 2" long Clown Loaches in a 2' tank
3" Clown Loaches in a 3' tank... and so on.
They grow fast when they are young, as long as they are disease and parasite free. You would be moving them up every few months until they hit about 4". Then they seem to slow down.
Depends on how many tanks you want to move them through, but here is one schedule:

Quarantine for a month, treat for internal worms. A 20 gallon long would be very good for half a dozen 2" or smaller youngsters, and not too expensive to medicate. A nice shape for bottom oriented fish, and it can be worked as a river tank if you need to add some more water movement to the system. If they are smaller than 2" I would keep them in this tank until they grow to 2". Such small fish need frequent meals and this can foul the water. You will need to do a lot of water changes. This is a piece of cake on smaller tanks, but can get old really fast on larger tanks.

When they have cleared quarantine and grown to a minimum of 2", fat and sassy, move them into a 4' long tank with some other species (mid and upper level schooling fish, would be good) and maintain optimum water quality, and top notch food so they continue to grow. When they reach 4" move them to a 6' long tank. Over 100 gallons. (my 6' tank is 125 gallons + more water in the sump system) They may be OK in this, but this is the smallest tank I would think OK for several foot long fish.

[mattydoughts]

Thanks for the advice.

I do regular water changes and test the water at a minimum 2 weeks but mostly test weekly in line with water changes. Nitrite is 0, Amm is 0, and Nitrate was 0-20

The 2 I have at the moment are about 2" and seem really happy and very active feed brilliantly on whatever I feed them, They even take flakes off the top. In the day they don't stop moving either playing or digging about and then when the tank light goes off in the evening they go to bed about 30mins later hidden under a piece of bog wood with a nice cave for them. When I get up in the morning they are waiting bombing round the tank again. This all sounds normal, and they seem happy so is it worth leaving them as they seem happy or is it worth getting 1 or 2 more for now and either way upgrade in 3-4 years unless they get a big growth spurt.

Just a question, they had a little test of strength (like they were kissing) during the first month and now 1 has grow slightly bigger than the other, from what I have read this is normal to get the 'alpha fish' who grows a bit faster than the others. Am I correct?

[ch.koenig]

the biggest I've ever seen was an 30 cm specimen in the vivarium in Basel. it became 27 years old (time kept there) and died some years ago. the biggest actually is an 25 cm specimen in the zoo in Zürich of which I don't know the age. could ask when I have a contact next time. in a LFS I saw a 25 cm specimen last autumn for 80 SFr (about 78 $).
I think for a group a 2 m tank is nesesary to have sound and old specimen.
cheers Charles

[DennisCraig]

I've had 12 clowns in my 140 gal. For 10 years. Size does vary but more due to social structure, and pecking order during feedings rather then genetics I feel. Personality among individuals also contributes to growth or lack there of. My dominate female is largest (aprox. 8 inches), followed by 5 males whom are all identical size (aprox. 5.5 inches), the rest are all different size from 3-4.5 inches long. All the smaller loaches eat last but more vigorously, hence the smaller size and slower growth. I understand not all situations differ but in my experience this is what effects growth most, along with high protien and high quality foods. As far as water quality and changes go, I tend to let my tank go for months at a time with no water changes, or filter changes! I have 4, yes 4 emperor 400 hang ons, 1 aquaclear 150 wet/dry biological filter (1800gph return pump is on my river manifold), 1 magnum 350 cannister filter (return line also on manifold). I have cross current along with end to end strong current, my clowns and polka dots love it, my zebras don't mind it. Wow did I ever ramble off topic! Lol sry!

[chefkeith]

As far as water quality and changes go, I tend to let my tank go for months at a time with no water changes, or filter changes!

Dennis- Welcome to loaches online. It sounds like you have an excellent set-up and love the fish greatly. I look forward to seeing the fish pictures and video that you plan on posting in another thread. I hope you don't mind a little bit of advice though.

More frequent water changes is a must. You won't make many friends here by neglecting water changes. You can get away with fewer water changes if you have some kind of plant filtration or algae scrubber.

High nitrates is not good by any means. Large TDS changes aren't good for the fish either as they may damage the fishes internal organs. It could also stress the females enough to inadvertently induce spawning. You mentioned in another thread that your loaches spawned and that may be the very reason. Neglect and large water changes is not a good method to induce spawning. The professional breeders maintain excellent water quality at all times by doing daily water changes and they trigger spawning by doing water changes with distilled water.

[DennisCraig]

You wouldn't be my friend if I don't do the recommended water changes?....lol. All jokes aside, I've been told all this before and I understand it all, but I've been keeping fish since I was in kindergarden and I've always done things the same and always had good luck. My fish have lived long healthy lives and I have lost very few fish, none to ich ever, and I never quarentine. So I just don't want to change what works for me ya know? I don't TRY to breed any fish, so if my conditions cause spawning so be it. My clowns look, act, feed, and swim like everyone I've seen anywhere, online or in person. Not sayin my way is the way, it's just my way. Again thank you all for your replys and it's nice to know others who love their loachs like I truly do, they are my children, even my children call them siblings!

[DennisCraig]

I don't neglect my fish. Didn't think I said anything that would point to that? Water changes are not the only way to protect against nitrate levels and ammonia levels. I don't change filter inserts for sake of keeping my biological filter on par. I clean them regularly, along with good water circulation so that particles in the water are not in my water long enough to break down and cause issuses with my parameters. This is why high filter turnover and as much media contact is important. I also only feed what they will eat so not so much for my filters to pick up. I went with sand partially for this also, waste settles on sand, not in it so good circulation a must to keep debri off bottom and up near pick-ups. For me it's mostly about water turnover through filter media, and as much biological filtration as possible. If these are done your parameters will stay solid and stable no problems, and with less frequent water changes, and it's closer to natural then pristine crystal water, no algae, no small particles for fish to syhpon through for extra nutrition. Matter fact I've NEVER seen a body of natural water anywhere with such conditions, think about it. Thanks, hope no-ones upset.

[DennisCraig]

Man you sure know how to run a guy off huh? I'm sorry but I think your comment and the way you came at me about not makin friends because I do things different? Not very welcoming I tell you. Just here to share my fish, my knowledge, and my passionate experiences in keeping loaches. Can't even do that without someone thinkin I'm doin it wrong and I won't be excepted for it. That's sad for the hobby, the lifestyle, and looks bad for this site. I want no part of that kind of community. I'll be done sharing info now. Me and my clowns are happy the way we do things, if you don't like it tough! They matter more and they think I do a fine job of loving them, and they give back plenty!

[DennisCraig]

Just because I don't take my dog to dog shows, and get his nails done, and brush his coat every hour, and feed him the best food and give him the newest toys, does that mean I neglect him? NOPE

[DennisCraig]

Sorry......the neglect comment hurt my feelings. Never should have posted after that........

[bookpage]

... You won't make many friends here by neglecting water changes. ...

Even though you are not a beginner, maybe hearing it from some other place will help you understand the importance of changing the water.

"The solution to pollution is dilution"[1] is a very important concept that beginning fish keepers should learn. The fish we keep are producers of waste, as is the food we feed them. If we want to keep our fish healthy and thriving, regular, partial water changes are a must. I spend a lot of time reading many message boards relating to the proper care and maintenance of keeping fish. The most often over-looked subject is water changes. Beginner's simply don't understand the necessity of keeping the water in their fish tanks clean. What I hope to do in this short article is provide a little insight into why it is important to do partial water changes.

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article19.html

[DennisCraig]

Yep...