Water for my Clowns

[jeep04]

Hello,I seem to be a bit confused about water changes. I started a month ago doing twice weekly of 25% water change due too high nitrates(60 ppm). I use to do 25% weekly, but now i have a small amount of brown algea coming back like i did when i was going thru the break in period of a new tank. It almost seems like im hurting the bio filter,Why would this brown algea come back all of a sudden. What you guys suggested with the water changes is for sure lowering my nitrates they are at 40 ppm now. The only other problem is my largest Clown Loach is only coming out to feed and even then he's very skittish,but looks fine . My lfs claims im cleaning the tank too well, i do not clean the driftwood or other decor just gravel vac. I know i am overstocked right now with the tank being 75 gal and filtration is a Rena XP4 and a Emporer 400. Occupants include 3 Clown Loaches, 1 Baby Flying fox,6 Tiger barbs, 3 Odessa barbs and 2-2 1/2in geophagus which i dont know the species. The lfs said they will not get bigger then 4 inches but i looked everywhere on the web and they all look alike and none of them stay that small, So i dont believe they knew what it was. My lfs said he has 30 yrs keeping fish and im crazy for doing anything more then changing 25% water every 2 weeks, and at the rate im going with 25% twice a week that i'll kill the fish from unstable water conditions. Please help, i'm not sure if i am doing the right thing or not, Also am i way overstocked in your opinion. Thank You

[Sharkscott2]

40 ppm of nitrate is still too high. You want to get it under 20 ppm.

I do 50% water changes on my tanks once a week and my fish are doing great. With more water changes your tank water becomes more and more like your water source in my opinion. The only worry is temperature shock so make sure the water you're putting in is somewhere near the water temp already in the tank.

25% twice a week is typically plenty of water changes, but 40ppm of nitrates points to an overabundance of something. I look at it as fish food = nitrates. Fish food rots to form nitrates, or the fish eat it and their waste rots to form nitrates. The more food you place in a tank the more water changes you have to do to keep the nitrates in check. Other sources of nitrates would be dead and decaying fish or plants. Or your water supply could already have nitrates in it (if so I hope that isn't your drinking water).

Another way aside from water changes to fight nitrates is live plants. They will eat up the nitrates, essentially this is what your algae is. It's a plant which needs light and nutrients. Nitrogen (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate), iron, phospates, potassium, CO2 etc... in your water feed algae, in the right abundance the algae grows.

Will getting your nitrates down get rid of your algae? Maybe. Will your fish be healthier with lower nitrates? Yes.

If your bio filter wasn't doing it's job you'd see ammonia and nitrites in your water which can kill your fish fast. 1ppm of either is bad news.

[jeep04]

Thank you for your response,I have tested the water from the tap and it has 0 nitrates. I do believe i overfed in the begining and i also had 5 full grown filament barbs that ate everything before it got to the bottom feeders, so i fed more too get it past them. They have found a new home in a 125 biotope tank,so there not tearing mine up anymore. But i do believe there size of 5 inches and the way they ate contributed to the nitrate issue that i am still trying to get under 20 ppm. Thanks again

[Diana]

75 Gallon
3 Clown Loaches
7 Tiger Barbs
5 Filament barbs
1 Gold nugget
1 Bristlenose

Filament barbs get quite large, plump fish. I have them in my 6' long, 125 gallon. LOTS of waste. I think you will have to either do more water changes, larger water changes, or get rid of these guys. They sure are adding to the waste load in this tank.

36 Gallon
8 Rosy Barbs
4 Odessa
4 Pandas
3 Sterbias

This one is not overstocked, IMO.

One definition of overstocked is when you need to do more water changes or larger water changes that do not fit into your schedule. By reducing the population you are reducing the rate the waste builds up, so you can back off on the water changes. This also gives you a bigger safety factor if the power goes out.

Other ways to reduce the waste load include adding plants. Unfortunately most Barbs (yes, Filaments) will nip plants. I have some handsome Java Ferns in my 125, but just about everything else I try gets nipped down to nothing.
I have Golden Pothos, a house plant growing out of the tank and hanging on the wall. This is a pretty good nitrogen sink.
Of all my tanks, this one is the one I need to ADD KNO3 to as fertilizer for the plants.

Do not judge the frequency or volume of water changes by what someone else says works for their tanks. Test the water, and keep the parameters under control for your fish. When in doubt, do more water changes. (Assuming good quality refill water)
A famous Discus person did this test:
Set up a large tank but not very many or large water changes.
Set up a small tank, with constant water change. 24/7 water is flowing in and out.
Stock both tanks with the same fish-mass. Same number of fish, all the same size to start with. Small tank was considered overstocked, large tank was lightly stocked based on fish-mass per gallon.
The small tank with the constant water change system had the best growth of fish, even though they were overstocked. The larger, lightly stocked tank with small, less frequent water changes had worse fish growth.

[chefkeith]

Another loach member from the Pittsburgh area reported some disturbing water chemistry problems from the tap water a few years ago. The TDS there was terribly inconsistent, and it would range anywhere from 160 to 850 ppm right from the tap.


If you don't have a TDS meter, now is the time to get one. You may even want to look into getting a RO water system and adding the minerals back to water yourself. That way you'll get the water chemistry consistency needed for doing large or frequent water changes.


Here is what I'm referring to-

I just looked up my old post from October 30, and when I first got my TDS meter, the readings were tap-562 ppm, tank-601 ppm. The 852 ppm reading was given to me by the water company. The DEP and EPA is involved with the gas mine fracturing and brine water disposal problems, but I think the huge drop is due more to rain and snow dilution than any regulations imposed. Today, the tap water is 161 ppm, and 172 ppm in the tank. Oddly, though, the last time I checked my PH, it was still beyond the maximum of the freshwater test kit of 7.4, despite the TDS being below 200 ppm. Another odd thing that I have noticed since the TDS dropped so drastically is that when I do a water change, there is an abnormal amount of tiny bubbles present.

http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php ... c&start=15

[chefkeith]

I think the brown diatom or algae bloom is probably due to the tap water being high in iron and phosphates. Whenever there is excess nutrients in the water, you can usually expect some kind of diatom, algae, or bacterial bloom. A UV sterilizer could help in many cases, but it won't solve all the water chemistry problems.

[jeep04]

Well all of these are very helpful, Thank you for the responses. Not to sound stupid but what is tds, and as far as those Filament Barbs they did find another home but 2 Geophagus took there place. So maybe the plant will have a chance if the Geo's quit uprooting them. They are a fun fish to watch, I just wish i knew what type they are so i could plan on how big they are going to be. I will look into that whole TDS thing.

[Sharkscott2]

TDS = Total Dissolved solids


Try getting some good sized rocks to place around the plants so your fish can't uproot them.

Or you could try floating plants like hornwort, or maybe mosses which don't root at all. I'm not familiar with Geophagus, they may eat the plants I'm mentioning.

[vealboy]

Well all of these are very helpful, Thank you for the responses. Not to sound stupid but what is tds, and as far as those Filament Barbs they did find another home but 2 Geophagus took there place. So maybe the plant will have a chance if the Geo's quit uprooting them. They are a fun fish to watch, I just wish i knew what type they are so i could plan on how big they are going to be. I will look into that whole TDS thing.

Can you post a picture of the 2 Geophagus? I know a little about Cichlids, so maybe I can help you figure out what they are and how big they will get.

[jeep04]

I am unable too post pics right now, I have looked and from what i gathered they have too be almost fully mature before you can identify them. I will post a pic as soon as i can, Thanks for offering to help identify the little fellow. I just had a death in my 36 gal, One of my Long Finned Rosy's caught stuck in a piece of decor. She was the first fish i purchased and very beautiful also at almost 4 inches . I have been having an issue in that tank with my Corydoras, Their barbels are gone so i added melafix and it did nothing. But i guess i'll touch on this issue another time,Maybe another place since thier not Loaches. Thanks alot for everyone's help .

[Sharkscott2]

I've seen cases where cories have lost their barbles before because of rough/sharp substrate. In the case I'm thinking of the substrate was flourite red. I don't know if this is your situation but it's something to consider.

For loaches and cories you'll typically want to stick with a sandy or rounded substrate to protect their barbles.

[jeep04]

In the Cory tank i have small black gravel from Petsmart. The loach tank is very small slightly rounded gravel,which if i knew all i do now i would have used sand in both. I was going to change gravel to sand, But i keep reading different things about having a sand substrate. Such as growing to much bad bacteria due to being so tightly compacted and since your not really able to vac it, other then the top layer.

[Diana]

Barbel erosion can be due to high nitrates. I would increase the water changes and emphasize gravel vacs. If you have real plant substrate you do not need to vacuum it deep. If you are planting in gravel then I would still try to deep vacuum away from the plants.

[jeep04]

Both of my tanks are lightly planted, By that i mean they have 8 to 10 plants in each. I just came back from vacation, I was gone for a week and i set up an automatic feeder to feed every other day just a little bit. About half of what i normally feed, But when i got home my 36 gal tank was fine other then a loss of a panda cory . But the 75 was in bad shape, the fish are fine but the whole front glass was covered in brownish green algae. I mentioned having a little bit of this earlier in this post, But not to this degree. I never had this issue until i started doing the twice a week water change. Could it have something to do with the new xp4 filter that has only been up for a month and a half. I cleaned it and did a 30% water change, But why would'nt both tanks have it, if there kept under the same maintenance schedule, same feeding times and stocked similar. Only difference is the smaller tank has been set up 3 months longer at 1 year and about 8 to 9 months for the 75 gal. What do you guys think about feeding every other day just to see if that helps with the high nitrates, i dont think i'm feeding to much but maybe i am. Sorry to ramble but the last thing i want to do is kill my fish with kindness (overfeeding). Thank you very much for everyones help.

[chefkeith]

Is natural lighting shining on the front glass somehow?

I would get that brown green algae growing on stuff that gets too much lighting, but my pleco's and snails love eating it, so it's never been a problem with me. Maybe you just need to add some diversity to the tank.