Black dots on clown Loaches

[shari2]

Sounds like a plan Oh, the lengths we will go to for our hobby!

[Emma Turner]

Not everyone who has observed these black spots keeps their clowns on sharp gravel though. Mine have been kept on a soft sand substrate for well over a decade. The tank is aquascaped with extra large bogwood pieces which is spaced out enough for the larger clowns to navigate around without getting stuck. Therefore, in my opinion, the smaller clowns with the spots are not very likely to have been bruised.

Emma

[chefkeith]

Well Emma, that puts a wrinkle in my theory. I bought the pool filter sand already though. I'll quarantine a few of the worse affected clowns. Like I said before, most of the spots went away in about 2 weeks the last time I tried this. I think this will work for one reason or another, not sure which. I am glad that disease has been ruled out though. I've been going bonkers over these black spots for about 18 months now. I was really distressed from it because I thought it was a disease.

[midman]

I think this matter deserves further investigation.
Random freckles is too unscientific for me to end the subject.

Well, it's good enough for me and its my thread

Joking aside, this is a recent thing with mine. In fact, the pigment spots have reduced somewhat with my fish and the coincidence with them was while I was doing big water changes.

[chefkeith]

Midman- is there much of a ph difference between your tap and tank water? Are there chloramines in your tap water?

Here’s my list of possible causes so far –

Consensus-
Just freckles / normality connected to melanin

Other Possibilities-
Jagged gravel impressions/bruises
Fighting scars
Sudden ph changes
CO2 acid burns
Lack of oxygen
Ammonia burns (from chloramines being released during water changes)
Freckles from the bright lighting
Gas pockets in sand/gravel cause a burn

Doubtful-
Driftwood stains from tannic acid
Parasitic disease

[Graeme Robson]

Midman- is there much of a ph difference between your tap and tank water? Are there chloramines in your tap water?

Here’s my list of possible causes so far –

Consensus-
Just freckles / normality connected to melanin

Other Possibilities-
Jagged gravel impressions/bruises
Fighting scars
Sudden ph changes
CO2 acid burns
Lack of oxygen
Ammonia burns (from chloramines being released during water changes)
Freckles from the bright lighting
Gas pockets in sand/gravel cause a burn

Doubtful-
Driftwood stains from tannic acid
Parasitic disease

Your possibility list wouldn't just be for Clowns would it?

[chefkeith]

Your possibility list wouldn't just be for Clowns would it?

It's for clowns, based on my clowns specifically.

Last night, I quarantined about 20 clowns in the tank with the new sand substrate. I think the clowns are a lot happier already. I haven’t seen my clown loaches school around in big groups like this for almost 2 years. I think maybe the added O2 levels are perking them up.

I'm tempted to just get rid of all my plants, driftwood, gravel, cp lighting, and CO2 system just so my water conditions can be like they were before my clowns got all the black spots.

[midman]

Midman- is there much of a ph difference between your tap and tank water? Are there chloramines in your tap water?

Here’s my list of possible causes so far –

Consensus-
Just freckles / normality connected to melanin

Other Possibilities-
Jagged gravel impressions/bruises
Fighting scars
Sudden ph changes
CO2 acid burns
Lack of oxygen
Ammonia burns (from chloramines being released during water changes)
Freckles from the bright lighting
Gas pockets in sand/gravel cause a burn

Doubtful-
Driftwood stains from tannic acid
Parasitic disease

If there were any chloramines in the water then I think the chemicals I put in to neutralise them and chlorine probably sort it out. I do test for free chlorine and total chlorine and PH - all on one test strip.

My PH seems to come out of the tap at around 6.8 as it doesn't seem to make a difference how much water I change to the level of PH in the tank.

One thing I would say to you is that 1) I have recently introduced a large loach to join my current seven and 2) I am currently experiencing high levels of nitrate due to inadequate tank size. This is the only thing I can think of that is out of normal range.

I still think the spots are just a pigmentation and probably unrelated to anything.

I have never used anything but coarse gravel with my loaches. They have never injured themselves on it, nor did they have these spots before, so I think your gravel to sand test may not prove anything.

I am currently cycling my tank water at drip rate through a length of hose pipe 1 metre long which contains an ion exchange resin for taking out the nitrate . I am using a powerhead to provide the flow. This is in an even bigger attempt to reduce my tank nitrate other than doing regular water changes and filtering the tap water for nitrate. If I notice a difference from doing this I will let you know. However, Emma posted a pic of one of her loaches that had lots of these spots and I feel sure she has next to no nitrate in her tanks.

[midman]

Excuse me for being naive but what does the CO2 system do??

[Emma Turner]

However, Emma posted a pic of one of her loaches that had lots of these spots and I feel sure she has next to no nitrate in her tanks.

The current level is somewhere between 5 and 10ppm nitrate, which is pretty good considering how much food goes into that tank. Thanks to a fairly recent purchase of a larger RO unit, it is now possible to carry out daily partial changes.

Emma

[mikev]

Consensus-
Just freckles / normality connected to melanin

The determining factor may be simply the number and location of them.

In my case, it was (is) definite melanitic, there were only two dots, in symmetrical positions in the lower middle on both sides. The clown was incidentally my oddball (with a large round spot), so he already had melanitic abnormality. Strangely enough, I saw a second clown with nearly identical but larger dots in the same positions in a store last week, was even tempted to get it but the fish was not in a good shape.....obvious skinny and very damaged fins -- the store kept their clowns together with large parrots in a crowded tank...so nearly all clowns had chewed up fins (yuck).

[chefkeith]

Excuse me for being naive but what does the CO2 system do??

It's for plants. Plants need CO2 for photosynthesis. Adding CO2 also drops the ph and reduces O2 levels. I use a Ph controller to make sure the CO2 stays at a safe level.
Planted Tanks are in a completely different world of knowledge from Fish Only Tanks.

[stoney7713]

I've been searching for something similar to this. I have 3 clown loaches, all the same size, 3 inches, all 3 have spots, but here's where things get different.

1 has a large black spot in the orange section near the tail, on the RIGHT side. 1 has one large black spot exact same location but on the LEFT side. The last one has a few smaller spots on the chin where the gill plates end.

I'll try and get some pictures up, they don't hold still for very long....

I'm just really puzzeled about the black spots. Easy to tell them apart though lol...

[stoney7713]

I know these are not like the spots being described but I thought I would share what I have, about the best I could get, they don't like holding still... excuess the water spots too...lol

[Emma Turner]

Thanks for posting your pictures stoney7713 . Those black spots are just pigmentation - nothing to worry about at all. From time to time you see clown loaches with markings that vary from the standard pattern.

Here's some of mine:











This article may also be of interest to you: http://www.loaches.com/markings.html

Emma