Need set-up tips for hillstream first timer, Please!

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gmartenson
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Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:25 pm

Need set-up tips for hillstream first timer, Please!

Post by gmartenson » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:50 pm

Greetings all,
Well this is it! After much research and late night reading, I'm taking the leap on a hillstream tank. I'm procuring said tank this Saturday (used 55 or 75g) and am looking for input. I've kept tanks for years both salt and fresh and have been out of it for about a decade and with surprising encouragement from the better half, am relaunching into it. I will be using the manifold setup with powerheads to circulate water with HOB and canister filtration. I am looking to MAYBE converting to live plants in the future but will start with artificial. Rocks and driftwood will be the primary landscaping which I have already going in a tank to grow the requisite algae before being moved to the new setup. So I have three burning questions...

1. Since i would like to convert to live planting in the future, what would be a good substrate that wouldn't require too much maintenance or high cost. I have read that a corse sand mixed with montmorillonite clay is a good, cost effective route... T or F?

2. What would be other good community based species to pair with them?(preferring smaller peaceful species)... I will certainly be adding white cloud minnows because I just love them! THey don't have to be showy, just friendly and hardy.

3. Is it advisable to collect plants from the wild (I have abundant resources that can be collected with little to no impact in a nearby river) and quarantine them to add to the tank or is commercially raised the only viable way to go?

Any feedback is appreciated and I thank to in advance for entertaining the needs of a newbie!
Thanks,
G-

starsplitter7
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Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: Tampa, Florida

Re: Need set-up tips for hillstream first timer, Please!

Post by starsplitter7 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:55 am

I am sorry I am unable to give you much advice.

I would be worried about using plants from the river, since you can introduce parasites, bacteria, . . . where do you live. What is the habitat of the river> Cleanliness of the water?

I have introduced wild fish after look quarantine, so I do not take my own advice. I have been lucky.

Which hillstreams do you plan to add. What part of the world are you in?

gmartenson
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Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:25 pm

Re: Need set-up tips for hillstream first timer, Please!

Post by gmartenson » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:30 pm

Hello and thanks for the reply,
I actually live near one of the cleaner rivers outside the Chicago, IL area. Reason being that it has been the site of a recent "Superfund" cleanup by our EPA here in the States. As a result, many of the feeder streams and other water "sources" are pretty closely monitored for quality. If collecting wild, I was going to quarantine for sure to prevent such infections... I also have a UV sterilizer that would be used on the quarantine tank.

As for the species, I am starting with basics like Borneo Suckers AKA Beaufortia kweichowensis as they are readily available in my area and Zebra loaches for the same said reason. I think that I would like to have a dojo at some point as well. I will move on from there depending on compatibility and availability. Beyond that I will rely on research and word of mouth suggestions on the forums.

starsplitter7
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Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: Tampa, Florida

Re: Need set-up tips for hillstream first timer, Please!

Post by starsplitter7 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:00 pm

I know that people use bleach with plants to clean them, but I am always afraid to use breach. With plants, I am not sure by observation when you would know if the plants were safe to add. The UV would probably make me feel a bit more secure. I have brought home anacharis, water lettuce and salvinia, although I have found out since the last two were invasives I wasn't supposed to. You would think they would like you to remove the invasives.

A friend in my fish club asked me if I would like to take home a dojo he found. I would love it. My favorite fish in the river are the darters. They are great. In FLorida you can find awesome exotic invasive fish. I have a 6 inch sleeper goby fished out of Florida waters.

I would be concerned about putting zebras and hillstreams together, because I am pretty sure zebras like warmer water, but maybe there is a middle ground. I do have hillstreams with queens and they seen to do okay.

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Jim Powers
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Location: Bloomington, Indiana

Re: Need set-up tips for hillstream first timer, Please!

Post by Jim Powers » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:19 pm

I would definitely shy away from taking stuff from a river, particularly since you can get acceptable plants from an aquarium shop.
I would also agree that putting hillstreams, dojos, and zebra loaches together. Read the species profiles of each in the species index of this site to find out the requirements of each.
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jonstfrancis
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Location: Near Dartmoor, Devon, UK

Re: Need set-up tips for hillstream first timer, Please!

Post by jonstfrancis » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:13 am

In my experience, trying to grow plants from the wild in an aquarium doesn't work; they always die after a few weeks. I've tried small weeds and mosses from upland brooks near to my home and never succeeded. The only success is in one tank I have a stone that just breaches the surface and on that amongst mosses I managed to grow a little liverwort but that isn't under the water.

This is not to discount the dangers of introducing something alongside the plants, although the same tank has gravel from an crystal clear upland river which I collected in the winter (water was soooo cold!) to minimise those risks.

borntofloat
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Location: Tyne and Wear, Northeast England / Liverpool, UK

Re: Need set-up tips for hillstream first timer, Please!

Post by borntofloat » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:02 am

I've got some waterplants (mosses) from our water butt (rainwater collector drum) that were covered in small white leeches - urgh! ;-) I personally wld not risk putting a riverplant into aquaria.. for you who know what else you're bringing in from that biotope...

How is your hillstream setup coming along?

I love mine - I have 3 WCMM 4 glowlight danios, 2 small gobies that came in with two different pseudogastromyzon cheni shipments, 2 p. fasciatus that have coloured up spectacularly, 1 Gastromyzon crenatus, 3 very differently marked Homaloptera Smithi, and 'current dancer' a Vietnamese lizard loach Annamia Sp

= I go through the frozen food like there's no tomorrow! :)

I can't think of a more fascinating aquarium than having a hillstream tank! :)

Hope you are enjoying yours!

Stef

gmartenson
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Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:25 pm

Re: Need set-up tips for hillstream first timer, Please!

Post by gmartenson » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:13 am

OK, Well thanks to all who have replied! So far, I have all the pieces in place to start the build out of the tank... pumps, gravel, driftwood, pvc for the manifold and the tank set up out on the deck culturing algae rock are all a go! I'll be picking out a centerpiece driftwood next week ( hopefully looking to get something in the 28-30" range :( ) I have booted the idea of the "wild caught" flora since the 10gal planted dirt tank has taken off quite well to culture plant for the hillstream tank. A little CO2 goes a long way to root and multiply store bought plant. Jim, I think that the loach I was referring to was actually a Chinese Zebra Hillstream Loach... probably called by several names and many of them are; but your unfortunately right about the dojo loach... not a good match.
The Homaloptera looks like a must have once I stock the tank! I also am going to go for Sewellia lineolata since I love the patterns!!! Would like to keep about a half dozen. I do like the lizard loach as well!
What do you think your small white leaches were? Some form of nematode? I can't imagine what could end up in your rainwater barrel.
I was going to upload some pics, but I think the site doesn't like the Mac format... a little help anyone?

Thanks again everyone... and any feedback on the original question about future planting substrate for a fast current tank? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

G-

starsplitter7
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Location: Tampa, Florida

Re: Need set-up tips for hillstream first timer, Please!

Post by starsplitter7 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:17 am

Please post pictures of your new tank. :)

Unfortunately, I am not good with substrate. I use gravel and pool filter snad. Nothing nice.

gmartenson
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:25 pm

Re: Need set-up tips for hillstream first timer, Please!

Post by gmartenson » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:05 am

I will definitely do so as soon as I can get the Mac to do it. The pics just don't want to post right.
I was thinking of doing a 1/2 to 3/4 inch river pebble aggregate as the base and fill in with montmorillonite clay but it clouded my planted tank and it won't settle enough to make it satisfactorily clear. Ergo, I'm at an impass. I may have to abandon the idea of doing a truly planted river tank. Such as life. I just don't want to be plugging it with root tab all the time since I have them growing so well in the dirty tank setup. I may just have to do more experimenting with another planted tank :wink: . Oh darn!!!

borntofloat
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Location: Tyne and Wear, Northeast England / Liverpool, UK

Re: Need set-up tips for hillstream first timer, Please!

Post by borntofloat » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:32 am

the pseudogastromyzon fasciatus that I have are what are known commonly as the zebra Hillstream - they don't look much when you first introduce them but then the get these gorgeous defined bars and yellow fins and mine have just now developed a charcoal black edging to the fins!

Some people find them the most aggressive Pseudogastromyzon and wld not recommend them with gastromyzon but mine don't seem too bad at all. They should probably be quite on parr with however with sewellia however.

It's strange what has been found in our water butt over the years - various species on pond plant have set up shop in there quite on their own accord over the years and even a newt was found at some point - apparently birds feet are the main source of transmission, even fish eggs must be 'dropped' occasionally - as ages ago we found a couple of v small fish!

Ps. definately not nemotodes I know what you mean, I'm afraid these were most definately leeches of the blood sucking variety, I had wanted to try the mosses that were found in there as they were obv a temperate and shade forgiving species - but you can never really quite get rid of leeches once they get a hold... so it was never worth such a risk.

Looking forward to seeing some pictures! :) Ps. be careful of the current flow I once had a fish which broke its back when it was accidently smashed against the side of tank when testing out the flow....! :-/

Best wishes
Stef

borntofloat
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Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:04 pm
Location: Tyne and Wear, Northeast England / Liverpool, UK

Re: Need set-up tips for hillstream first timer, Please!

Post by borntofloat » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:38 am

Ps. The Plants that I have are either of the kind attached to rocks or buried in a small planter (and hidden by rocks) that can be removed for cleaning or moving around etc so very convenient really

borntofloat
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Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:04 pm
Location: Tyne and Wear, Northeast England / Liverpool, UK

Re: Need set-up tips for hillstream first timer, Please!

Post by borntofloat » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:52 am

Sorry something more to add -

Some of my planters are actually made out of sponge foam filter empty cylinder shapes that are fastened up at the top with lead weight. The thing with your substrate say with the p. fasicatus is that they are great diggers so be on the watch for that. I actually have a coconut shell filled with sand that I put my sinking pellet food into - what happens is tht the hillstreams love to dig and sift through this - it's fascinating to watch them almost 'play in their sand pit' the sand straining out their gills lol!! If any fish were like having puppies!! ;-) The fish behaviour and interaction is amazing and dare I use the word 'cute' esp say the rhobigobius which I can wholeheartedly recomend for this setup type - they way they just cock their heads to look at you to say 'what's going on there now outside the tank! ;-) The H smithi also move and arch their necks to this 90 degree angle and they even go these strange fish somersaults when there's food to be had on the surface - it's like a circus in there! ;-)

borntofloat
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:04 pm
Location: Tyne and Wear, Northeast England / Liverpool, UK

Re: Need set-up tips for hillstream first timer, Please!

Post by borntofloat » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:01 am

These are the gobies I was referring too - often found as stowaways in Hillstream imports if u keep an eye out for them: I got mine for the pricely sum of 99pence because of this. Definitely something to consider as you would feed them the same as the Homaleptera anyway.

http://s1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg4 ... t=goby.jpg

gmartenson
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Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:25 pm

Re: Need set-up tips for hillstream first timer, Please!

Post by gmartenson » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:17 am

Ouch on the broken back! I should have a problem there with my setup I think. It will be wide open water on front of the powerheads as the end of the tank. The intakes will also be enclosed in sponge filters... under gravel manifold is the plan. I was thinking that I would put a sand patch somewhere on the tank bottom in the event I ended up with some diggers eventually, but I think the substrate cap will keep them from uprooting too much if it gets planted... but that's a bit down the road and another problem to solve. Sounds like you have nice variety in your tank. Pics? Still working on that one myself. May have to go the Photobucket route but that's yet ANOTHER online account to keep track of.

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