A hello post with some questions - and lots of PICS!

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Lil'Gills
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:17 am

A hello post with some questions - and lots of PICS!

Post by Lil'Gills » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:52 am

*waves* :D
I've been a LONG time lurker, and figured it was time to join this wonderful forum, since I've gotten so much good information here. Thanks to all of you who have helped me out - even if you don't know it - and to the fantastic team that created and maintains this site, it's a real treat to have a forum dedicated to these amazing critters!

I'm a Kuhli girl, no doubt about that. I've had 5 Pangio Kuhli for *almost* a year now. They're currently living in my 55 gallon tank. I love them, and have never had a problem with them. They're always out and visible, eat well, are active, and seem happy. . .

Here's their home:
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Here are a few shots of the babies <3

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I've been looking for more Pangio Kuhli to bump up their shoal size, but all of my GOOD local shops have closed down over the last year, and nobody else has been able to get them in stock. FINALLY, 3 days ago, a shop that I never go to (but had given my number to in case they came in) called me to let me know they had some. I went right over, and I won't be going back - it was a nightmare!

Usually, I see Kuhli kept in a bare-bottomed tank with a hide or two thrown in, because Kuhli loaches are notoriously difficult to catch, and can burrow under the substrate. THIS tank had gravel, and they were playing hard to get. I watched as the woman was stabbing the net into the gravel repeatedly, trying to scare them OUT to net them - and failing miserably. I mumbled something about how I hoped none of them were getting hurt under there. . . she stopped stabbing the gravel, and started taking nets full of gravel OUT and into her little catch-box, and then dumped the water with the loaches into the bag. . . eventually I asked if she wanted me to give it a try - but of course, that isn't allowed. It was a terrible experience. She counted the fish - I wanted FOUR - and said "I'm going to go get you an extra one, because I think I squashed one. . ."

Nice.

When she went off to get the 'extra,' she left the catch-box with the bag inside of it on the counter, and that's when I realized that my new babies were REALLY babies. Tiny, teeny little loachlings. These loaches are SO small. I don't know how big they're supposed to be before being sold, but I've always seen them for sale pretty close to the 2.5 inch mark - these loaches are 1 inch ONE of them is *slightly* bigger, maybe 1.5 inches. I probably should have refused them, but I had to bring them home and at least give them a fighting chance!

In the end I came home with 6 for the price of 4, but the squished one didn't make it. He was alive when I got him home, but died within a few hours. . . :(

Of the five surviving loaches, ONE of them isn't stripey - the 'extra' she got me is a Pangio oblonga. Guess she didn't feel like bothering to capture the right TYPE of loach, since I wasn't paying for him (because she squished the other one!), so I still have the four that I wanted, plus one black and one dead. But there's no way that I'm going to return him for a stripey one - I am NEVER setting foot into that shop again. . . unless it's to ask for a full refund when all of these die - which won't surprise me, considering how roughly she pulled them from the tank, and how young they are.

I was going to put them into a bigger tank to QT, a 29gallon - but I was so afraid that I'd lose them! I ended up putting them into a fully cycled and planted 3g tank - they have enough room to swim 8-10 body lengths before reaching the other side. No way I could keep an eye on them in a larger tank. It isn't ideal, but hopefully it'll be okay for a month or so - and hopefully they make it through and into the 55, where they will lead full and happy lives. Poor little things!

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This last shot is pretty close to actual size. . . :?

They hid for the first day, of course. The second day I was starting to see them a bit, and then yesterday they lost their minds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... mhP-W78nAM

My bigger loaches do this in a new tank, or after a large water change, or any time I re-arrange anything, but I just wanted to double-check to make sure they're okay! They did settle down a bit after this video was taken, and they are all eating well - as far as I can see. The one that is slightly larger is still in stealth mode, hiding in the cave.

Other questions. . .

I've read that Pangio oblonga shoal with Pangio Kuhli, but since I only have ONE of the black loaches, should I get more of his kind to keep him company? Will he be lonely as the ONLY oblonga in the tank?

I'm wishing I had a 10g QT tank available, but I don't. Do you think they'll be okay in the 3g for a month? Or should I go ahead and stick them in the 29 gallon? They're SO tiny!

Is there anything I should do differently in caring for these at such a small size? I got my original 5 at 2.5ish inches, so I have no idea how to care for baby loaches!

One of them has a reddened area on his 'chest' I'll try to get a picture later - it looks like it's beneath the skin. Is this normal? I've never seen it before... hoping he didn't get squished, too...

Sorry for the book! Thanks in advance for any advice/information you might have for me!!!

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: A hello post with some questions - and lots of PICS!

Post by Diana » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:14 pm

3 gallon is a fine Q-tank, especially for such small fish.
I quarantined my baby Clowns in a 3, and they were only 1" to 1.25" when I got them. I treated them with Levamisol and then antibiotics. They grew like crazy! They are now in my 125 gallon tank.

I would suspect that the Loach with the red area is another casualty of the catching method. Not so injured that he dies right away, but that 'under the skin red' could be bruising. Could be something else, too. Perhaps getting started on some antibiotics, in case it is some internal infection.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

Lil'Gills
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:17 am

Re: A hello post with some questions - and lots of PICS!

Post by Lil'Gills » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:43 pm

Diana - thank you so much for the reply! I really appreciate it!

Good to know that the tiny tank will be okay for the tiny babies for their QT. Paramaters have been very stable, but I can't help feeling bad for keeping such active little critters in such close quarters - despite their size! They seem happy, and the reclusive 5th loach was out and playing today with the rest of them! Everyone is eating well, and they're becoming more comfortable with me near the tank.

Here's the little guy with the upset tummy:
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I couldn't get a shot of him from today - he refused to hold still, so this is from the 24th, when I brought them home. I didn't realize that I had captured a clear shot of him - of course it's a side view, but you can still see how bad it looks. I'm going to try to get another shot tomorrow - at least to compare the two and see if it's gotten any better since he's been with me. He behaves just like the others, he's actually one of the most active, and was the first to lose his shyness and come out to play. I hope he'll be okay.

As far as antibiotics, my loaches have always been really healthy. Aside from one injury that I treated the tank with Pimafix and Melafix for, I've never used anything else on them. Would one or both of those medications be appropriate for this, do you think? If not, what do you recommend that will be safe for the sensitive little ones? I'm so upset at how these creatures were handled. . .and by the owner's wife, so there isn't anything I can really do about it. *growls* Poor baby. . .

Thanks again for the advice and encouragement!!! :D

Lil'Gills
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:17 am

Re: A hello post with some questions - and lots of PICS!

Post by Lil'Gills » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:27 pm

I *think* I may have figured it out. . . I suspect these new little loaches might be Pangio cuneovirgata. . . they all have sightly pinkish chests, though this one does look far brighter than the others. Does anyone know if it's normal for this species to get quite SO red on the bottom? A Google Image search on Pangio cuneovirgata pulled up a few images that show fish with the same strawberry color on the bottom. . . I really hope so! I'd like to think he's normal, and not squashed!

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: A hello post with some questions - and lots of PICS!

Post by Diana » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:19 am

That would be good, if it is normal for the species.
I do not trust internet pics, though. The colors can be really odd.

Melafix and Pimafix are very good for external issues, but they do not enter the fishes' bodies to help against internal issues. If the red coloring is a problem that could be helped with medicine, neither of these would be my choice. Need an internal medicine.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

Lil'Gills
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:17 am

Re: A hello post with some questions - and lots of PICS!

Post by Lil'Gills » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:33 am

Do you know what would be effective and SAFE for loaches? I've never had to medicate them for anything internal before. I'm pretty sure that this is P. cuneovirgata, but - as you said, internet pics can be iffy. She's REALLY red compared to the others, who are slightly pinkish, so I'm still worried about her. Getting new fishies is always a bit nerve-wracking!

NancyD
Posts: 1608
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:17 pm
Location: SF bay area,US

Re: A hello post with some questions - and lots of PICS!

Post by NancyD » Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:09 pm

I thought those 2? might be cuneovirgata, much smaller than some other pangios. I don't know I'd go to antibiotics right away but frequent water changes, maybe every other day or so, can help boost healing. I had late developing problems with a couple tiny semicinctas(?) but without the visible possible bruising, IME oblongas & semis got along but did not ever think they were the same...of course I had the semicinctas for a couple years before adding oblongas so they were always more mellow. If you can find them, add at least a few more oblongas...after quarantine of course. Good luck! & keep us posted, your tanks look very nice!
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Lil'Gills
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:17 am

Re: A hello post with some questions - and lots of PICS!

Post by Lil'Gills » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:52 am

Thanks for the input, Nancy! I've also found that clean water is the best medicine. . .and using any type of meds on loaches REALLY makes me nervous. I'm thinking that with how tiny she is, if this is going to be a problem, there may be nothing I can do, anyway. . . Time will tell, I guess. Hopefully she'll be okay :) I appreciate your view on how the different loaches behaved in your tank. . . there are actually four of the P.cuneovirgata, and then the one lonely oblonga, and in the main tank I already have 5 P. semicinctus. It's kind of funny, as I was only trying to bump up the population of the P. semicinctus (wanted an eventual shoal of 12), but now have ended up with three different speceis that need proper numbers! Luckily the oblongas are easy to find locally - any of the stripey forms are not. You say that they got along, but "did not ever think they were the same" Do you think the lonely oblonga will be stressed without others of his kind, specifically, or that he would be comfortable in a shoal with the two stripey varieties? I'm thinking I may end up with far more loaches than I originally intended!!!

NancyD
Posts: 1608
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:17 pm
Location: SF bay area,US

Re: A hello post with some questions - and lots of PICS!

Post by NancyD » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:11 am

I think you should get the oblonga at least 3 or 4 friends :) Of course we're loach enablers here :wink:

My 2 species would hide or feed all together sometimes but when out & about each kind stayed near at least 1 or 2 others of it's own species. Unless you have or plan on getting several more bottom feeders you have lots of room. I had 14 pangios, 4 similar loaches (v.maassi) & little schoolers in the same footprint tank, it didn't seem crowded or need extra maintenance.
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starsplitter7
Posts: 5054
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: Tampa, Florida

Re: A hello post with some questions - and lots of PICS!

Post by starsplitter7 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:41 am

Looks like your kuhlies live in Pangio paradise. I am happy you took the oblonga too. He deserves a good life too. May not be as pretty, but just as delightful.

I have found Pangios for sale at walmart like they sell Bettas and I have seen them in feeder tanks, so just keep an eye out. They seem to be seasonal. I buy them when they come along. Your fish are beautiful and they will thrive under your care.

Glad you are quarantining them. Many people make that mistake. You have some very lucky fish.

To treat loaches for parasites use levamisole. Works well and is compatible with loaches. I agree, a clean tank is a healthy tank. :)

Water changes for me today. :)

Joe Khul
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:07 pm
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Re: A hello post with some questions - and lots of PICS!

Post by Joe Khul » Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:37 am

Hi and welcome,

I would love to know where you got the Pangio cuneovirgata . Been looking for those for years with no luck. Your tank looks lovely.
Glad you stopped lurking. Hope you enjoy it here.
Kuhli Loaches are like Pringles... you can't have just one!

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