New Clown Tank (Serving Penance or doing right by the fish)

[Bennett.Bri]

By "Penance" - I mean that I was the idiot that walked into a fish store with a snail problem and allowed them to sell me a clown loach. (Incidentally this is almost the same way how I ended up with what looks like a common pleco, too). I've learned the error of my ways and I am trying to fix it - I've started with the gorgeous Loach book that lists this forum as a great resource.

So what I have now is a growing very young clown loach (still about 3" long) and a fat and growing common pleco (about 6-7" long). I've been reading and fixing the tank they are both currently in, a 20 gallon long. I realize that it is criminally too small for both these fishes. So I'm starting on my next tank now and have formulated a few ideas based on everything I've read and wanted to run it by the experts.

My plan (So far):
* Purchase a 72 x 24 x 17 (125 gallon "wide") from GlassCages or hopefully finding one used.
* Construct the "river manifold" system
* Use sand as substrate, lots of driftwood, hiding spots, plants where I can
* either have glasscages.com drill an overflow or just buy an overflow for the "downstream" end of the tank.
* Use a 20L as a sump (using cut class from hardware store to divide) and refug
* Have the return pump feed up to the "Upstream" end of the tank.
* I have a ehiem pro 3e canister filter that I have considered using the same way, intake on the downstream, output on the upstream

I will also keep the current 20L as my QT after moving everything.

The Pleco and Loach are both bottom feeders, but as best I can tell they both like fast moving water and at about the same temp. I would like to otherwise create a biotope for the Loach (I believe the Pleco is south american so there will be some limits).

I know I'm leaving a lot of details out, but I'm just at the point where I need to commit to the tank and build the stand to hold it all. I would be in everyone's debt if the experts here could comment with their ideas and thoughts on it. I will continue to look in the forums for answers and edit this if I've missed something.

Thanks so much,

-BB

[chefkeith]

Hello and welcome to LOL. I had the same problem with my 1st clown loaches about 9 years ago. They started off with a 6 gallon tank, then moved to a 33 gallon within a few days, then into a 90 gallon within a few months. I probably could of stopped at the 90 gallon tank, but it's only escalated since then. Now they got several tanks equaling about 400 gallons and I'm probably not done upgrading yet. Clown Loaches are a great fish species to build around.

I've have similar loach set-ups of that size (6' x 2') footprint and put a manifold in it. What I've learned is that a typical manifold doesn't work well for 6' long tanks and really isn't that necessary for creating good water flow. Water is going to flow in a circular pattern, not one way from end to end, like expected. The typical 1/2" pipe manifold will also most likely restrict the water flow from the powerhead pump. So a larger diameter pipe would be needed, if you decide to use a manifold. Covering up a larger pipe with substrate, would be the next problem.

Sand is great choice for loaches, but try to avoid playsand, due to that it compacts too much, and creates anaerobic dead spots in the substrate. Pool filter sand or similar large grades of sand work best because they don't compact. A tidbit about sand and really strong water flow: is that sand tends to get swept up from the ends, and piles up towards the center of the tank (which also exposes the manifold at the ends if you have one). Large rocks, driftwood, loach caves, can help retain some of the sand at the ends and divert water flow some, but not completely. So you might find yourself raking the sand and needing to level it out from time to time, which is really no big deal, if you are prepared for it.

Larger PVC pipes and PVC fittings can make great loach caves though. To make them look more natural, lately I've been experimenting with painting them camouflage type colors, with Krylon Fusion spray paint. I could post some pic's of them if you are interested in seeing what they look like.

Anyways, good luck with this project. If you have anymore questions, feel free to ask.

[Bennett.Bri]

Thanks so much for the information. I think I've got it in my head that I must make that water move in as close to a stream environment as possible. So since a left-to-right water movement isn't possible, would it make sense to design the tank with an island (of sorts) in the center of the tank for the water to wash around in the circular motion?

I actually do already have about 150 pounds of filter sand from HD - I've been washing it and "aging" it, for lack of a better word. So I feel good about that decision (Hey, one small win at a time!). I have been worrying about the sand bed being too deep and was wondering if it would be worthwhile to mix some larger pebbles in, at least in the deeper part of the bed around the manifold.

You have a great idea bout the PVC pipes and Krylon Fusion. I have been working out that in my head, too. I have pretty hard water at my house, so I've already started collecting bits of driftwood to help soften it but now I'm starting to think maybe I need to set up a RO config.

[chefkeith]

The Island idea works pretty good. But also if you set-up all the driftwood, plants, and other tall objects in the mid section of the tank, like it was a race track, the water will flow around in circles better.

Mixing some pebbles in with the sand isn't a bad idea either if you want to keep the manifold from being exposed. You can always sift/screen out the pebbles later if you don't like them.

Do you know the TDS or hardness of your water?

[Bennett.Bri]

It's fairly hard water right out of the tap. The PH comes out around 7.5. I'll edit this post with the actual GH/KH numbers when I get home, but like I said - it's fairly hard (not as bad as I've seen others post). I've been using driftwood to soften it up before it goes in the tank. But it was enough for me to start considering getting a small RO/DI unit. I have some wall space on the other side of my washer/dryer that I was going to put a utility sink, so it wouldn't be too much trouble to plumb in a basic unit. I've heard of others using peat to soften it up, too. But an RO/DI unit would seem (to me) to be a more useful solution - especially if I consider doing more with a JBJ Nano tank I have.

If I understand what you're saying, it's to use the driftwood / PVC "caves" and other hiding spots all in the center of the tank to make a 6" raceway around the edges. I would still hang on to the manifold, but doing it this way would let the sand wash around in a circular motion and (most importantly) the loaches would have a nice long swimming zone.

Thanks again - Of course I've followed the thread of Keith Wolcott's mega tank and gotten some great ideas and procedures from his journey but need this kind of "nitty gritty" advice before I start.

[Bennett.Bri]

Well - this is weird. At least for me.

I came home and when I looked at the log book to see when I'd last tested my tap water, it was 3 months ago. So I figured I'd re-test. These are the little API 5 mL vials and drop-shake-look GH/KH tests and 5 drop PH tests.

Results (2/5/13)
pH Low - 7.2
pH High - 7.4
KH - 3 dKH (53.7ppm)
GH - 2 dKH (35.8 ppm)

Results (11/15/12)
pH Low - 7.6
pH High - 7.8
KH - 9 dKH (161.1 ppm)
GH - 8 dKH (143.2 ppm)

Before that test, my KH/GH tested a little higher (11 dKH). The only thing I did different (See, you knew it was coming) was to use a different faucet this time. My kit is drying out now and I'll retest from the faucet I usually fill my tanks from, but I"m wondering if something has happened to the city water. If it stays this low, I think I'll be ok without RO/DI right?

[NancyD]

Where do you live? I had & have different water in winter vs summer in both New England & now California. Water companies can get water from different sources in seasons, wells, snow melt, reservoirs. As long as you're not doing huge water changes it shouldn't be too much of a worry. Sounds like your clowns will have a very nice new home, good luck!

[Bennett.Bri]

Hi Nancy, thanks for the well-wishes!

I'm in suburban Atlanta. Having hard-ish water made sense - we have that really crappy thick clay soil here. It's to the point where anyone who wants anything to do more than basically survive in their yard has to throw lime down a couple of times a year to drop the pH of the ground. (That reminds me, I need to lime my yard before Feb is done).

[chefkeith]

It's good that you caught that. Osmotic shock or acclimation stress is often the culprit for mystery deaths. I recommend checking the tap water with a TDS meter before water changes. Check that the TDS is the same from both faucets too. TDS meters measure the dissolved solids or conductivity of the the water. So if there is a change with water chemistry or something leaching in the water, you'll know in seconds. You won't need to test the GH, KH, or PH again. Good TDS meters only cost $15-20 on Ebay.

[glenna]

just to second that thought...
My TDS meter has been a LIFEsaver, literally.
It is such a good screening test for water differences, and I truly think mine has been the MOST VALUABLE small piece of equipment I have purchased. The one I have (TDS-3, I think) is available on Foster and Smith for less than $40 and I am sure you could find it, or one similar for much cheaper with a little effort.

IT is something that I use with every water change where I use tap water. Some of my tanks are RO tanks and so the TDS becomes even more valuable there, esp with inverts, where a big osmotic shift is really bad