ICH med recomendations for Clown loaches

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Arden
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ICH med recomendations for Clown loaches

Post by Arden » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:03 pm

I noticed today on one of my younger clown loaches what appears to be the early stages of ich.

This particular fish was fairly recently introduced to the tank after a few weeks of QT.

I was fairly confident he was fine. Clear skin, bright color, clean eyes. But now a week or so into the big tank and he seems to have a couple spots popping up and I have noticed random erratic behavior from him.

Someone recomended Kordons Rid ICH. I looked up the manufaturers information amd it says the main dose is already half the "normal" or "average" dose typically found. So it could probably be used at full strength.

One issue I have though is it says not to "raise" the temperature to more than 80 degrees.

My tank is already between 82 and 84 on a regular basis.

Should I turn down the heat?

Is there another brand you would recomend?

I have not had an ich outbreak in my main tank in almost 6 years and was lucky to have one surviving fish

I didn't notice until the infestation was obviously present and was ill prepaired to handel it


I used heat and salt at that time and did manage to save one clown loach out of the whole tank and he is still with me to this day. I am not prepaired to risk his health again so please give me your best tried and true advice here on this. I know at this stage I've caught it resonably early. Help me rid my babies of this bug.

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redshark1
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Re: ICH med recomendations for Clown loaches

Post by redshark1 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:24 am

Don't turn down the heat. Heat is your best friend in this situation.

Apparently drugs are not needed, just raising the temperature to 86F.

But I also used King British Original Formula WS3 which contains Malachite Green, Acriflavine and Quinine sulphate which I have heard described by a microbiologist as an effective external parasite - killing cocktail. My Loaches tolerated it well at full dose.

A 50ml bottle costs £6 and treats 1000 gallons at full dose.

Because I made the mistake of buying some of my Clown Loaches at a particularly tiny and emaciated size (due to their low cost) they had the ich pretty bad. Luckily they kept feeding (live bloodworm and the absence of other competitors was useful here). This was in 1995 and all are still with me.
6 x Clown Loaches all 30 years of age on 01.01.2024, largest 11.5", 2 large females, 4 smaller males, aquarium 6' x 18" x 18" 400 ltr/90 uk gal/110 US gal. approx.

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DainBramage1991
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Re: ICH med recomendations for Clown loaches

Post by DainBramage1991 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:59 pm

^This^

Also, don't drop the heat below 86F until AT LEAST 2 weeks after the very last sign of ich.

Loachloach
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Re: ICH med recomendations for Clown loaches

Post by Loachloach » Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:53 am

Whatever you do, increase the aeration while medicating. That's the reason the meds don't recommend high temperatures while treating because they suck up the oxygen from the water.

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redshark1
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Re: ICH med recomendations for Clown loaches

Post by redshark1 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:47 pm

^^^Good advice there.

Less oxygen is able to dissolve in water of a higher temperature.

If I needed to I would add air through a venturi on my powerheads, though I do not use these normally due to the noise produced.

I prefer my aquaria to be quiet, probably because I hail from the age of air pumps LOL :lol:
6 x Clown Loaches all 30 years of age on 01.01.2024, largest 11.5", 2 large females, 4 smaller males, aquarium 6' x 18" x 18" 400 ltr/90 uk gal/110 US gal. approx.

Arden
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Re: ICH med recomendations for Clown loaches

Post by Arden » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:29 pm

Thank you.

My temp is currently at 86F

I'm running a curculation pump and airator in addition to the hob and canister

I am also feeding oral medication and garlic in a mix of various food combos each day.

I can not find that medication you suggested locally... I am hoping the heat and oral meds will get them threw but I'm monitoring the sitiation very closely

NancyD
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Re: ICH med recomendations for Clown loaches

Post by NancyD » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:36 pm

Where do you live? That can make a major difference on treatment, not all meds are available in all countries. High heat & salt can work...& so can other options.
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Arden
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Re: ICH med recomendations for Clown loaches

Post by Arden » Wed May 01, 2013 5:45 pm

I'm in the US

I have been treating them now for 6 days with a combo of seachem metronizadol and seachem focus. I have been mixing this to a variety of foods adding garlic and doseing twice daily.

So far with that and the temp increase I have no knew outbreaks to speak of so far and no losses. The loaches are still exibiting classic ich symptoms but outside of that seem generally healthy.

Although one appears he might additionally have skinny disease. He looks sunk in down the body. I'm not sure what to do about him... beyond what I already am I mean...

Loachloach
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Re: ICH med recomendations for Clown loaches

Post by Loachloach » Wed May 01, 2013 6:03 pm

That's so frustrating.
Metronidazole may have some benefit against the skinny disease but that depends on what it's caused from.
I read recently that the parasite causing it is a cousin of the hexamita parasite and it's been easily treated with JBL spirohexol(that's in Europe) but metronidazole has similar effect agains hexamita although when I treated my guppies once it didn't work for me, where the JBL stuff did.

It's probably best if you first give them a chance to get over the ich with the current medication and if still no improvement in a few weeks time for the skinny one, maybe isolate him and treat him additionally on his own.

Arden
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Re: ICH med recomendations for Clown loaches

Post by Arden » Wed May 01, 2013 8:08 pm

Loachloach wrote:That's so frustrating.
Metronidazole may have some benefit against the skinny disease but that depends on what it's caused from.
I read recently that the parasite causing it is a cousin of the hexamita parasite and it's been easily treated with JBL spirohexol(that's in Europe) but metronidazole has similar effect agains hexamita although when I treated my guppies once it didn't work for me, where the JBL stuff did.

It's probably best if you first give them a chance to get over the ich with the current medication and if still no improvement in a few weeks time for the skinny one, maybe isolate him and treat him additionally on his own.
Yea, That's my thought. Get them over this hump first amd then if he makes it move him over the the hospital tank.

I would now but for one there's no sense in infecting two tanks where ich is concerned. Plus I also have a betta in there right now who (if he does alright) will be one of my sons up comming birthday presents. Although I haven't told him so yet.

Kind of a disaster really. ICH showed up right about the same time I got the betta for QT... ironic no? lol

Loachloach
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Re: ICH med recomendations for Clown loaches

Post by Loachloach » Wed May 01, 2013 8:53 pm

They should be fine. I think clown loaches aren't so fragile(or bettas :) ) Just keep treating for a week or two even after you see no signs of ich at all. Garlic is great for them too and their immune system. I often smash some and just drop it in the tanks, it stinks after :) The increased temperature speeds up not only the ich life cycle, but the fish's metabolism and immune system, so they can fight better against it(and they should eat more too)
The best is if you can do large water changes daily or as often as you can while treating which will reduce the number of ich parasites preventing it spreading to non-infected fish or re-infecting the fish.

Good luck with it and let us know how you get on.

NancyD
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Re: ICH med recomendations for Clown loaches

Post by NancyD » Thu May 02, 2013 11:29 pm

I don't think metro works on ich, I'm not sure of Focus. Make sure there's no carbon in your filters. Dyes (methylene blue or whatever green) & salt are all I've used in many years but no ich in a very long time since QT every new fish (knock wood). Bettas & clown loaches can handle higher heat than some species & it helps speed up the lifecycle of ich & at 90*F can kill most strains but that is way hot for even heat tolerant species.

If, after the ich issue, your skinny loach is eating, there are some antiparasite foods like angelsplus.com flakes with levamisole etc. I've only used them as a "just in case" TX with new fish since levamisole is very hard to find these days ( I'm hoarding my small supply). Some antibiotics are also effective in some cases, look at the "skinny disease " treatments in the health forum stickies. Good luck!
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mehtab_gill
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Re: ICH med recomendations for Clown loaches

Post by mehtab_gill » Fri May 03, 2013 3:17 am

my clowns are losing their ich cysts as i write this. I used malachite green and formalin in full dose. I tried half dose for the first week but found that the ick spores weren't coming on. in fact that they were increasing. considering how prone clowns are to ick i decided i have to hit them hard. so far it's working, this is day 4 on full dose using ick guard by jungle labs. i've also increased salt to 1 tsp/5 gallon. hopefully this works but as far as my own observations; it is working.
Loachloach wrote: Garlic is great for them too and their immune system. I often smash some and just drop it in the tanks, it stinks after :)
are you using the garlic mixed with other food or just by itself? i've heard of this and am curious on this method. can anyone else list any foods that can be mixed with garlic to help boost immune?

Loachloach
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Re: ICH med recomendations for Clown loaches

Post by Loachloach » Fri May 10, 2013 12:45 pm

are you using the garlic mixed with other food or just by itself? i've heard of this and am curious on this method. can anyone else list any foods that can be mixed with garlic to help boost immune?
Sorry, I only read this now.
I just smash the garlic and drop it in the tank and let them eat it when they like , but you can for example get whole cloves of garlic and insert the wafers deep into it, so when they try to eat the wafers, they bite the garlic too,but that's for bigger mouths :)
Another option is to presoak the food with the garlic, so it absorbs from it, it works well with frozen food too. See what works for your fish. Mine tend to just think it's food and have a go for the smashed pieces I drop.

Arden
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Re: ICH med recomendations for Clown loaches

Post by Arden » Fri May 10, 2013 4:21 pm

Well several people have stated that metro doesn't work for ICH but I'm pretty sure it does at this point.

Just going another week to be certian but so far all looks good.

(focus is a binder - for the metro)

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