Kuhli Loach help please!!

[Cyberkat]

About a month ago I found these adorable baby Kuhli's at a lfs and I got two of them. I think I still have both of them, have only ever seen one at a time though so I'm not 100% if I still have both! . These little ones were only 1.5"-2" long when I got them. Wasn't expecting to see them again until they were bigger and started hanging out with my other Kuhli's. But I see one of them about 1x a week and so far I do not see that it has grown any in the month since I got them.
Are Pangio's really slow growers or do I have that little 2" variety of Kuhli? Have also noticed that my two striped Pangio's, my two Black ones and now the "babies?" each stay with their own kind when they're hiding. Was expecting new babies to hang out with the other striped ones but I have only seen this once. Is this normal?

[Diana]

They are slow growing, but you should see some growth by now. Are the other Kuhlies preventing the smallest from getting food?
Sometimes larger and smaller loaches will get along, sometimes not. I would think, especially if the larger are being pushy about food, perhaps they are also being pushy in other areas.
It might be better if this littlest Loach was raised in a separate tank with non-greedy fish, perhaps something that swims higher up in the tank like some Rasboras. That way you would know that the littlest one (or both, if you can find them both) are getting all the food they need.

[Cyberkat]

Thank you! The bigger Kuhli's stay on the far left side of the aquarium & the babies seem to stay in the middle. The black Kuhli's are more active than the Pangio's but I've never seen them in the middle tank area during feeding, so I think the babies are OK as far as getting food. In fact that's when I usually see one of the babies is at feedings. So it sounds like I may have two of the little 2" variety of Kuhli's since I haven't noticed any difference in their size. I guess I'll know in another month for sure!

[The Angry Loach]

Well, I've had my black kuhlis for a little while and they don't get too big. 2-2 1/2'' is really all the bigger I have. Granted, mine are only a year and a half old. I only have black kuhlis, but the newer and older fish all stay together for the most part. They stay cuddled up under their own drift wood "cave." Some of my older kuhlis still stay with the chinese algae eater that they came home with even though he is now MUCH larger than them. He gets sad with out them, let's be honest. He mopes a lot more when in a different tank. How many hiding places do your kuhlis have all together? It could just be comfort level bothering them too much to bond. I can see all 11 of mine at any given time, but they have a plethora of hiding places. Black kuhlis are not as out going as the pangio variety and tend to be a little more shy. They're mostly active at night time or times of low light, since that makes them the most comfortable and gives them little reason to fear any kind of predator. Giving them more spots to hide or even just a shady spot in the tank, and they could liven up a little bit and try to bond with the other fish. A Cat helps as well. Being constantly watched by an enormous toothy animal stops being scary after a while and then you fear no creature. xD Not advising buying a cat to help scared fish, obviously, but it helped my crew!

[Cyberkat]

My guys seem to be the opposite of yours, I see the Black Kuhli's out more often than the Pangio's! Over the past 6 wks or so I've noticed my Pangio's out more often during the day. Maybe 18-24 mo's ago I had a group of Pangio's that made me dizzy swimming up & down the corners of the aquarium all the time and then they suddenly stopped and disapeared. This happened in the the 1st quarter of the year and they've never done that sort of behavior again. Though I may have a different group now. I'm thinking that since I've been seeing my Pangio's more this year and its the same time frame that maybe it's their usual "rainy season" thus its time to breed or maybe they are just really comfortable in the tank now?
I have plenty of hiding places for them, not too bright lighting, live plants & a very big ball of Java moss growing over a "pile" of petrified wood. I also have 2 Peppered Cory, snails & a few Ghost Shrimp they share the bottom of the aquarium with. Sadly I don't have a Cat! As soon as I figure out how to make a certain little Dog more kitty friendly & find a kitten old enough to handle the dog but young enough to learn not to try & eat my Canaries I plan to get one!!

[NancyD]

Cybercat, my pangio experience was similar to yours. I had 6 "striped" kuhlis for a couple years & added 2 small, also striped, but possibly a different species, loaches. I then added them all to a larger tank with 7 or 8 "black" kuhlis. The "oblonga" (black) were very much more active than the older striped at feeding & generally daytimes too. The 2 small stripes hung out together in the high plants & with the older "stripes" a bit. But the "oblonga" were much more out & about than any of the stripeys. That said, I eventually lost both of the small stripes for some reason but the calm, older striped & manic newish blacks lived their separate, but happy lives, until I had to give them away pre-move.

I think it's like different species of corys...it's not that they don't get along but more that they can tell they're a different species & really prefer their own kind best of all.

[Cyberkat]

NancyD did your Pangio's ever do the corner swimming thing? It was really cool to watch them & I totally do not know how they didn't make themselves dizzy since it went on constantly during the day at least, for over 6 wks!
I'm thinking you may be right in that they somehow recognize their own species. I find this very interesting. I am down to one little Endler & one Danio in this tank and the little Endler has started swimming with the Danio and then I have my Kuhli's who are basically "cousins" to each other staying with their own kind. Its crazy!!

[NancyD]

My black pangios often "danced" especially after a water change or a décor rearrangement. They did mellow out a bit after a year or so. The striped would practically let me touch them sometimes & would often wait at the door end of their tank for me to feed them . The small ones scared me more than a few times hanging out in the tall & floating plants, not moving away when I reached in as long as I moved slowly.

There are more than 1 species of "black kuhlis", you could check the species index on the main site to see if you can tell if yours might be different.

[The Angry Loach]

My kuhlis tend to do the "Loachy dance" more towards late spring into early summer. They can tell when there are vast changes in atmospheric conditions and tend to be very active during those times. Water changes and redecorating tends to get them in a stir, too. With the cory comment, my corys spend all of their time together and they are on different sides of the family, so to speak. They were introduced at different times and they love each others company. My oldest cory, named Cory, has the nick name "The enforcer" due to his quick crack downs on anyone goofing off loves his tiny, spotted friend. They are always within inches of one another. Maybe we should look at this more like we might with other similar loaches and their behaviors, however. Even though the Y. Modesta and Y. Eos are very close relatives, putting them together doesn't always end with peace. They generally fight with one another because despite their similarities, they know each other to be very different. The same can be said with my clown loaches housed with my Y. Eos. He's more comfortable than he was, but he still knows he's different and causes a fuss on a regular basis. Unlike other loaches, however, kuhli breeds are harmless, so at least you can rest easy knowing that no matter what, your little guys will live happily even if not all together as one family. Continue to watch them and you might see that in the future they will learn to work as a large family, rather than the second cousins.

EDIT:: I had an idea right after I posted this! Try finding a special food you know that both groups both thoroughly enjoy and place it in the middle of the separate dwellings of each kind of loach. This will draw them both out and be forced to greet one another to get super tasty noms! Cucumber seems to be a popular treat as well as water melon. Apples have been used in other instances. They can tell when there is food as soon as it hits the water, so you shouldn't have to worry about leading them to it. Hopefully that helps. That's a behavioral trick used with other animals, so maybe this will show results for you as well!

[Cyberkat]

I'm always on the lookout for more Pangio Kuhli's, so I hope to add 2-4 more when I can. They're hard to find in my area for some reason. Then maybe my guys will do their corner dance again if I have more of them.
I'll have to try some veggies/fruit to the aquarium & see what happens, that's a great idea! I've only tried Cucumber a few times, sometimes it was popular & sometimes not but my Kuhli's never showed any interest regardless. What fruit/veggies are most popular with Kuhli's? I didn't realize you could add fruit to an aquarium so I'll start with some apple (once I get one!). How long do you let the fruit/veggie stay in the aquarium? I've only let it stay in 2 hr's or so before but I don't know if that's long enough especially with the fish not being used to this type of food.

[The Angry Loach]

Well, each fish is an individual, so what they like could be a little different. Apple is a little tougher than other fruits, but as long as it's sliced, they can get at it quite easy. Most fish enjoy any kind of fruit or veggie you can think of. I feed broccoli to my bettas and platys and apples slices for my loaches, and lettuce leaves for my sharkies and the last time I did water melon, I did have a little extra clean up to do, but everybody liked that. Try different things and don't give up after one try. Sometimes it takes them a while to understand that this new strange thing is edible. Just take a slice of desired food and weigh it down near where they stay so they can see it and feel comfortable going to it to check it out. As you find out what they really like, you can move the food further out to the "meeting point" so they slowly learn where to go for special yumm foods. Do that with both groups over the course of a month or more before going for the middle of the dwellings, but if your group learns quick, you might be able to speed up that process. If you're worried about how you'd make bite sized pieces of food for them-- don't. They've got little mouths that work just fine and nibble off what they want and like and will pretty much burrow through it. What better way to enjoy your food that to wear it?

[Cyberkat]

Thank you all so much for all the great information you've given me!!