concerned

tttnjfttt · Post by **tttnjfttt** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:46 pm

I have two clown loaches, one is as happy as can be. The other i'm getting worried about. Both are about 5"

My water appears fine, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 15, pH 7.4. Tank is 40 gallons (will upgrade when fish get bigger), 5 tiger barbs, 4 zebra danios, 2 clown loaches, 1 red tailed black shark, 1 opaline gourami. Over all, tank has been healthy except the mysterious death of a 2 year old tigerbarb yesterday (removed and quarentined when it was clear he was not doing wll)

The one i am concerned about I have had for two weeks, the first week he seemed a little shy and inactive, so i wrote it off as to him aclimating to his new home. He is now inactive most of the time, He is pale, and doesn't eat much. There are no other physical signs of illness, not ich, no sores, no velvet, breathing seems normal. I have offered blood worms, shrimp pellets, algae wafers, bananas, peas, and cucumbers.

Any ideas on what this might be? He was bought at a chain LPS, so i'm not sure if he was wild caught or not.

tttnjfttt · Post by **tttnjfttt** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:13 pm

anyone?

shari · Post by **shari** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:31 pm

Sorry tt, the reason for lack of response may be that based on your description, I'm stumped.

The pale-ness could be that he's spending his time greyed out due to the presence of the other clown and territory/ agression issues. Is it a greyed out pale or a 'sick' pale?

By 'inactive' do you mean lethargic in an obviously unwell way, or is he just laying around bored?

You say he's 'not eating much' so I guess he IS eating some? It could be he does the majority of his eating after lights outs...

Any ideas on why the tiger barb died? Any chemicals near the tank, strange bugs, accidental additions by others? Or was it an illness? Were his symptoms similar to the ones you're seeing in the clown?

Little more info and observation would be helpful. Diagnosing illnesses of fish is difficult via cyberspace without pictures and VERY descriptive, informative information.

tttnjfttt · Post by **tttnjfttt** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:48 pm

Shari wrote: The pale-ness could be that he's spending his time greyed out due to the presence of the other clown and territory/ agression issues. Is it a greyed out pale or a 'sick' pale?

I'm honestly not sure about the difference. I have seen him go from vivid bold colors to grey after a food dispute, but after a few minutes he would be back to his color. Now he is staying that way for extended periods. Today he is hiding in a cave, so i can't really tell.

Shari wrote:By 'inactive' do you mean lethargic in an obviously unwell way, or is he just laying around bored?

I don't know why he would have been bored. the other loach is loving life, and always active searching for food. I've got many caves and plastic plants in my tank that the healthy one is in and out of. The other lays (until today) has been laying infront of the tank.

Shari wrote:You say he's 'not eating much' so I guess he IS eating some? It could be he does the majority of his eating after lights outs...

Its hard to say how much he is exactly eating, i see him a little when i put the food in my tank. EVERYONE except the danios have taken to the bottom feeder food, so the bottom is a frenzy with many compeeting for food. I do see him digging around the sand when he is moving, which i'm assuming is his way of eating?

Shari wrote:Any ideas on why the tiger barb died? Any chemicals near the tank, strange bugs, accidental additions by others? Or was it an illness? Were his symptoms similar to the ones you're seeing in the clown?

I have no clue as to why he died. What i noticed in the tiger barb was he was hiding for a few days in a plant nose down (a sign of stress in barbs), but i couldn't identify any. Then after two days, he began swimming eratically and seemed to have no control, which is when i pulled him out. At this point i noticed his dorsal fin was shreaded. I have not seen this in any other fish in the tank. I euthanized him later that day. I have seen no similar behavior in my other clown loach, which is why I am concerned. I will see the healthy one go over and sometimes nudge the sick one to try to get him more active. I have thought of adding a third to spread agression issues, but don't want to while there are health issues going on. I don't think it is a chemical issue because more fish should be affected.

Shari wrote:Little more info and observation would be helpful. Diagnosing illnesses of fish is difficult via cyberspace without pictures and VERY descriptive, informative information.

If he comes back out to the front i will definately get a pix. The only thing i can think of that i haven't said besides pale and excessively lethargic is he is a little thinner than the ohter fish.

shari · Post by **shari** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:54 pm

Now that's a little more helpful. The well one is nudging, and the sick one seems thinner.

Is the thinness especially noticable nearer the head and along the upper lateral line? If so, he may have skinny disease. Here's a link to look at for you to help decide:

http://www.geocities.com/pktechlizard/skinny.htm

hth

tttnjfttt · Post by **tttnjfttt** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:54 pm

I just rememberd this one. Last night, he did seem to be rolling over onto his side. I have seen them sleeping on their sides before, and already been through that panick, but it seemed different. He seemed to be awake while doing this.

I also am just noticing a few of my other tiger barbs are starting to go nose down. Can i add a low dose of salt to their tank? I'm also gonna re-check water stats in a minute

tttnjfttt · Post by **tttnjfttt** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:03 pm

Its definately nothing like what i'm seeing in those pix. Basically the healthy one is round and boardering on a little plump, where the sides are curved. The one in question has his sides go straight down and no roundness. If that makes any sense.

shari · Post by **shari** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:14 pm

How often do you do water changes and how do you do them? Do you test the water you add to refill the tank to make sure that it's similar in temp, pH etc?

I'd do a water change, vac the substrate and observe carefully for further info before adding salt.

If the barbs are also dying/affected then it seems likely there is something going on in the tank. Check it out and get back to me, ok?

tttnjfttt · Post by **tttnjfttt** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:21 pm

I do weekly water changes of about 20%, using prime as a dechlorinator. I match the temp the best i can, but there is a difference in the pH. My water has a very low kH, but from the tap has a very high pH (like 9+, off the chart) but then drops to 7.4. I didn't vacume inside the caves, which i can do again. I never top off my tank with water, as that can lead to old tank syndrom.

This one really has me lost.

EDIT: I should add the tiger barbs could be acting mellow because they pigged out on peas this morning, and probably ate more than their share.

shari · Post by **shari** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:47 pm

Do you add it to the tank at 9+ or wait till it drops?

qumqats · Post by **qumqats** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:08 pm

tttnjfttt wrote: I also am just noticing a few of my other tiger barbs are starting to go nose down.

That's tigar barb's normal way of sleeping and also of saying 'leave me along, I'm non-aggresive!'.

I have a school of tigar barbs and I've lost a couple. One was a runt that never grew much. He was the loner and never mixed with the others. Found him floating one day. The other one I lost just turned up floating one day, no idea what happened.

The nose down thing is normal at night. I wouldn't worry unless you have one doing that while all the others aren't.

clownloach · Post by **clownloach** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:06 pm

The fact that he hasn't adapted to his surroundings yet is stumping me. I bet he's just not ready to come out yet, kind of like he's shy. A few questions:
1) Does he/she have alot of hiding areas?
2) Does it come out of hiding when you turn the lights off at night?
3) Does he hang out with the other loach you have?

tttnjfttt · Post by **tttnjfttt** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:07 pm

When i do water changes i add the water straight from the tap, but do my best to stir it up coming out of the hose (i use a python) to get it to drop quickly. Thats also why i try to do frequent small changes to minimize the pH change.

The only reason i thought the behavior was strange for the now deceased tiger barb is because because it was constant, all day.

The loach is looking a little better today, more active, less pale, but he still goes to his favoirte spot and sitts.

I was reading the internal parasite article on this page, and it recomended preventitively treating all new loaches for internal parasites. Should I do that? Might that help him?

loachaholic · Post by **loachaholic** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:53 am

One thought - have you noticed the RTBS making a nuisance of himself? They can be quite territorial and might be harassing the clown so that he takes refuge in his "spot".

JonGuerriero · Post by **JonGuerriero** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:02 pm

loachaholic wrote:One thought - have you noticed the RTBS making a nuisance of himself? They can be quite territorial and might be harassing the clown so that he takes refuge in his "spot".

As I was reading this thread I was thinking the same thing

tttnjfttt: Can you post a picture of the tank? What are the dimensions of the tank?

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