3 of my Yoyo loaches just died! :(

[ey]

I came home to discover 3 of the yoyos had died (or was on their way)
The yoyos that died varied from 2" to 3". Prior to the discovery, I had 6 yoyos but am now left with 3. I really really want to find out the cause to prevent any further deaths.

Needless to say, I was devastated and shocked, and frankly, still am.

Just tested water stats and they appear fine.
0 ammonia
0 nitrite
20 nitrate
pH 6.2

I've had no deaths since about 2-3 weeks ago when I lost a few danios, which, according to many, could have been caused by the yoyos. Looks like they are getting some back.

1 of them was motionless when I got back, the other 2 were swimming upside down and was struggling. When they finally gave up, I took them out and one of them had parts of his body bitten off.

Other fish in the tank include:

Clown loaches
Yoyo loaches
Bristlenoses
Danios
Rummynoses
Cardinals
Platties
Cories

As you can see, most of the fish I have are all peaceful, with the most aggressive one being the yoyos, so I find it extremely ironic that they will be the ones to go.

Of the 3 yoyos that died, one of them was the alpha one (largest one) and I've noticed in the last week that he has been constantly chasing and harrassing the other yoyos whenever they get near his hiding spot or during feeding time. As a result, my initial guess was that maybe all the yoyos ganged up on him and killed him, but that obvious doesn't make sense since 2 other smaller yoyos are also dead.

There are no signs of any diseases or ich in the tank.

Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[shari2]

would you remind me? What size is the tank again?

[Emma Turner]

Sorry to hear that, ey.
Whilst you are answering Shari's question about tank size, could you also remind us what temperature you are keeping the tank at?

Emma

[ey]

Thanks for the replies.

Tank size is 100g and temperature I've been keeping the fish at is 30oC.

Though in the last couple of days, the room temp has fluctuated quite a bit, the weather has been pretty crap here in Sydney.

[ey]

I've just spent the past few hours doing water change after water change after water change.

I think I'm going to give up on the fish if more keep dying...its so frustrating!!

Ok, to set the record straight, I think I didn't measure the water params correctly the first time round....it turns out ammonia was/is actually 0.5...apologies for this, as I measured the ammonia as soon as I came back from work, was too busy stressing about the exam tomorrow.

Shocking, considering I just did a water change 3 days ago. This all started a month ago...when I started losing danios, platties and even a Bristlenose for no known reason...turns out the only possible culprit would be the yoyos....the reason for the attacks might have been the yoyos being too hungry.

To counter this, I have been feeding the yoyos and other fish in the tank two to three times as much food as usual....I guess the overfeeding has caused the ammonia spike. It's funny how the most sensitive fish such as the rummynoses and panda cories are still doing fine, none of these guys have kicked the bucket yet.

I immediately did a 50% water change and took out the dead yoyos. All other fish species look fine, however the remaining yoyos all look quite sick, one was actually suffocating so I moved him to the smaller 29g tank...hope he can recover..

I'm out of options now, as the whole reason why I started to increase the feeding was because the yoyos were killing/eating other fish as they appeared to be underfed. So in trying to resolve this issue, another problem arises....and I thought fish keeping was a rewarding experience, when something like this happens, its such heartbreaking.

Just had my bloody dinner (its 11pm now) and an exam to study for tomorrow, looks like I wont be sleeping tonight.

[Emma Turner]

Aw, ey, try not to get too disheartened, you should be able to sort this out.
With the temperature as high as it is, have you increased oxygen levels within the tank to compensate?

Emma

[helen nightingale]

good luck with the exam, and the fish situation

as long as you learn from your mistakes, please dont be too despondant about your deaths - it doesnt mean you should give up. everyone has made mistakes, and even the most experienced people have things go wrong, and sometimes fish die.

are the yoyos looking skinny? it could be that they need worming, rather than feeding more. if the yoyos are weakened through another reason, then this could explain why they dies and not the cories etc. yoyos can be cantankerous anyway - they can chase fish if they get a bit grumpy from time to time

what sort of tests are you using? dip strips can be less acurate, and as i found out, test kits dont work properly if they get old! make sure that by doing lots of water changes you are not taking out too much bacteria that will affect the ammonia/nitrogen cycle - this will cause you problems.

could you tell us how many of each fish you have? reduce feeding back to normal, or less, for now, untill you have the ammonia problem under control, if you havent already. whatever is causing the deaths, ammonia will make a problem worse

best wishes

[ey]

Aw, ey, try not to get too disheartened, you should be able to sort this out.
With the temperature as high as it is, have you increased oxygen levels within the tank to compensate?

Emma

Thanks Emma, does the high temp become more of an issue when there is an ammonia spike? I have increased oxygen levels since the temp has been increased to 30oC, which was when I set the tank up.

[adampetherick]

The higher temp should cause the ammonia eating bacteria to multiply quicker.

Unless it goes too high and starts killing them off, but 30deg was the recomended temp for fishless cycling.

One added factor not often mentioned is the temperature of the cycling aquarium. Both Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter have optimal temperature ranges for growth and metabolism of 30 - 35 C (86 - 95 F) (Lawson, p. 234, and Johnson). Turning the temperature up to this range is not practical with fish in the aquarium, as it is above the suggested temperature for most tropicals (Mollys being one exception). However, since we are not subjecting fish to the rigors of higher temperatures, we are free to crank up the heater to the mid to high eighties (F), which is the range I use, and probably the highest I would ask my heaters to support. I have been able to cycle an aquarium in less than two weeks at this temperature.

http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Ammonia.html

[ey]

good luck with the exam, and the fish situation

as long as you learn from your mistakes, please dont be too despondant about your deaths - it doesnt mean you should give up. everyone has made mistakes, and even the most experienced people have things go wrong, and sometimes fish die.

are the yoyos looking skinny? it could be that they need worming, rather than feeding more. if the yoyos are weakened through another reason, then this could explain why they dies and not the cories etc. yoyos can be cantankerous anyway - they can chase fish if they get a bit grumpy from time to time

what sort of tests are you using? dip strips can be less acurate, and as i found out, test kits dont work properly if they get old! make sure that by doing lots of water changes you are not taking out too much bacteria that will affect the ammonia/nitrogen cycle - this will cause you problems.

could you tell us how many of each fish you have? reduce feeding back to normal, or less, for now, untill you have the ammonia problem under control, if you havent already. whatever is causing the deaths, ammonia will make a problem worse

best wishes

Thanks Helen, appreciate it.

I guess whats really ticking me off is that this isn't your normal mistake, rather I followed the LFS's advice and fed more to the yoyos and this is the consequence....

the yoyos do not look skinny, I've just taken some photos of their bodies, will post up shortly...I measured them and they were actually 3" to my surprise and all were quite plump. With the yoyos, all of them would chase each other for fun, only the alpha yoyo would chase all the other yoyos aggressively, well he was the first to go...but to answer your question, I don't believe the yoyos were skinny or weakened through any disease.

i'm using the API master test kit which is used by and recommended by many, so I think it should be quite accurate....i'm not even sure how much water change to make anymore, I have put in a crapload of Prime water conditioner in as apparently it detoxifies and gets rid of ammonia and nitrite...I'm hoping this would happen sooner rather than later as the ammonia is still quite high, just measured and its now 0.25

I've got around about 100 fish, though most of the 100 are small fishes like tetras....I do not intend to feed for the next 48 hours until ammonia reaches 0 and everything stabilises.

[chefkeith]

Please don't give up on the fish. We'll try to help the best we can. Can you please answer more questions. It would be helpful.


How long has the tank been set-up?
How often are water changes usually done?
What % of water change is the norm?
What is the Gh, or conductivity,or tds of your tank water.
What is the Gh, or conductivity, or tds of your tap water.
Has salt ever been added to your tank water?
Do you use any kind of water softeners for your source water?
Is there Chlorine or Chloramines in your source water?
What water conditioner do you use during water changes?
What Ammonia test kit do you have?

To me it sounds like TDS shock or Chlorine/Chloramines in your source water. Water changes are normally a good thing, but water changes can be stressful and can kill fish if the source water is alot different from the tank water.

Chloramines is an ammonia product that needs to be binded. Even if the ammonia is binded, nessler ammonia test kits will give a false positive readings. Chlorine or Chloramines untreated can kill a biofilter also. You probably already know this though.

Again, I'm Sorry about all the questions, but they will help us figure out what's going on in your tank.

[ey]

Are there any additional tips on treating a tank going through an ammonia spike?

Should I lower the temp now? Should I stop feeding for a couple of days? Should I do more water changes tomorrow?

For the fish that haven't suffered or died yet, will there be ramifications that show up later on? I prey I wont lose any of the clowns or cories as they are my favs.

Has anyone bought the Seachem Ammonia Alert? Are they any good? I think I need one badly as I definitely need to keep an eye out on Ammonia in the near future.

[chefkeith]

Prime will give you a false positive ammonia reading with an AP ammonia test kit.

[adampetherick]

Are there any additional tips on treating a tank going through an ammonia spike?

Should I lower the temp now? Should I stop feeding for a couple of days? Should I do more water changes tomorrow?

For the fish that haven't suffered or died yet, will there be ramifications that show up later on? I prey I wont lose any of the clowns or cories as they are my favs.

Has anyone bought the Seachem Ammonia Alert? Are they any good? I think I need one badly as I definitely need to keep an eye out on Ammonia in the near future.

I'd cut back on or stop feeding for a few days.

[shari2]

when I had an ammonia spike after a power outage and lost some fish I put a large handful of 'ammo-loc' into an onion bag and hung it under the outflow pipe into the tank. That, and increasing oxygenation seemed to help the most. Don't know what they have in Aussieland of a similar nature but I'm sure there must be something. The stuff I got was whitish colored cubey shaped 1cm blocks. If you can get some it will absorb what ammonia is not handled by the prime or water changes. You may want to give it a try.