Tank disaster, Hillstreams gone.. should I replace them?

[Sherry]

I had three hillstream loaches in a community tank.. 78 degrees, who were doing really well for months.

2 of the three used to routinely come off the glass and scrounge for food at feeding time with everyone else. I called them my explora loaches and I loved them

Last week disasater struck.

24 hours after I replanted some of the back (35 gallon cube) six fish just died within minutes of one another. We still don't know what happened. My guesses are babysitter washed floor and fumes got into tank.. or more likely... I stired up someting when I did replant.. fish were fine during the day,b ut when plants began to respire and use up 02, the combination of what ever I stirred up and the o2 deprevation over night may have hurt the hillstreams. Also gone, my male apisto cacatoides and 2 tetras.

nobody else was gasping tho.. nobody else died.. all inverts are fine.

everyone has been fne ever since.. I did daily water changes just to be safe.

now.. should I replace my hillstreams. I do keep an extra powerhead and a cannister filter going for current... I am assuming wahtever happened was a bizzarre fluke. tank has been very stable before and after. Is my set up so far from waht makes them happy taht I'm being cruel. I love these fish

[Mark in Vancouver]

That's too bad - horrible, really. Hillstreams are probably not the ideal fish for your tank as they want strong water flow. We always recommend the addition of at least one powerhead filter to increase water circulation. Because they live in fast moving water, their tolerance for low O2 is probably extremely low compared with most other loaches.
As the name implies, hillstreams should live in tanks that aim to approximate a jacuzi level of flow, and that's not generally good for plants.

[Sherry]

I have a cannister filter and a power head.... but not jacuzzi levels of movement....

[Sherry]

with cannister filter and additional power heads.

[Jim Powers]

Anytime there is some type problem with the oxygen level in a tank, the hillstreams are going to be the first ones to be effected. Often, unfortunately, that means they die.
If you really want to keep these fish, but don't have much room or want to spend too much, try setting up a rivertank in a 20 gallon long tank(30"x12"x12"). That is a nice size tank for a small river tank. You can set up the tank to meet the proper conditions for these fish.

[Sherry]

another tank isn't an option because I live in a tiny nyc apartment with two very small children and the spare space is taken up by them and theirs.

i can do my best to optimize conditions in my community tank.. I thought I had.. indeed I know I had, the hillstreams were thriving and the catastrophe that took them took other fish as well.

I think I should have done a deep substrate vac once I disturbed the back of the planted tank.. I must have released something that wasn't an issue durign the day but became a big issue at night.. I am also now in the habit of running an air stone at night to make up for the fact that hte plants become consumers more than producers of o2.

Now all that said, would somebody please please help me better optimize conditions in a community tank or tell me why that is impossible to do. I would like to do this right, and obviously better than I did.

[Jim Powers]

There is an old Rolling Stones song that says " You can't always get what you want". Hillstreams are called that because they come from fast flowing, well oxygenated waters. They don't thrive in average community tank conditions. If you are bound and determined to keep them in a regular setup, despite the advice of people who have kept these fish, then be sure to increase oxygenation of the water and provide some flow. Also, since you may have had some kind of problems from dirty gravel, make sure you keep that clean too.
Good luck to you and the fish.

[Sherry]

Jim it wasn't dirty gravel.. it was mulm left there on purpose for a heavilly planted tank. I keep this tank beautifully. It is my one piece of garden in the big city and it is prized.

I don't know if anything gravel related caused the die off, I have been trying out educated guesses and working to just avoid setting up similar circumstances to be safe.

I ask questions for a living.. I am an investigative journalist and best selling author .. and if I felt like I had been given an answer I wouldn't still be asking. So let me try to rephrase the question because clearly I have yet to ask one clear enough ... . Can I keep hillstreams in a tank with additional current, but current that still falls short of jaccuzzzi levels. ?

They did great in the tank for three months. Two of the three ate bloodworms and fish food and had a great time exploring my substrate and river rocks. The tank disaster that took them and other fish remains a mystery unsolved, I am just going out of my way to NOT replicate any of the conditions leading up to that.

Oh, and that old Rolling Stones Song is music I danced to in College. It ain't old for me.. or maybe I'm just old.

[Jim Powers]

Jacuzzi like flow levels are not mandatory(but preferred) for hillstreams but, at least a good flow is recommended. They are designed for that and definately feel comfortable in strong current. High oxygen levels, however, are definately necessary for them to thrive. You might want to add some bubble wands or airstones or increase surface agitation. If you are going to keep them, try to direct some good flow, whether its filter return or an added pump or powerhead, to an area that has some flat stones for them to rest and perhaps a flat piece of slate, leaned against something for them to hide behind.
In college I was dancing to the "Some Girls" album.

[Sherry]

Some Girls came out my Junior year I think.. .but no rolling stones song ever really goes OUT.


I have had an xp1 and a rio running in the tank, and they did find teh river rocks adn favor them (under some petite nana).

They also liked a flat piece of driftwood that makes a natural cave (top of)

airstone is only possible at night if I'm going to inject co2... but the plants provide hyperoxygenated water during the day.. pearling visably.

does this sound workable (and kind) for and to the fish?

[Jim Powers]

I really don't know anything about using CO2 and its effects on fish. I would definately use an airstone at night if you can't use it all the time. I can't say if this will work for these fish, but I personally wouldn't do it this way.

[Martin Thoene]

In the interests of investigative journalism and answering the question, these fish will probably survive OK with those conditions, but they will not behave in a natural fashion unless you provide them with a "Bigger Bang" of current, which may be too much for other 'community' fish.

We should all endeavour to provide our fish with the best conditions that approximate their natural habitat. You can not mix fish from fast-flowing streams (e.g. around 4metres/second) with fish from slow flowing or still water and expect either group of fish to be entirely happy.

Doing so is "Rough Justice"


So the question is, are you prepared to know that you are compromising a fish's well-being or are you prepared to set up a dedicated, properly appointed tank? If the answer to the last part is no, then for the fish's sake please do not say yes to the first part.

Personally, I'm here for the fish's E-motional rescue

Martin.

[Dr. Momfish]

groan.

but he really is.

so what'll it be lady writer of best sellers? will you have a hillstream tank OR a regular tank?

i better go to bed......bye.

[Sherry]

Well, it sounds like I'll have to wait to replace my hillstreams untlil I can set up a second tank..

which may require a second best seller because it will require a move to a bigger apartment.

anyone here read Blind Man's Bluff, ? It's about submarines and spies... and even tho it takes place under water, I clearly have bunches to learn.

I do love hillstreams.. but a cube tank isn't a great set up for a river tank... and the rest of the fish probably won't be happy being evicted.

If I do set up a hillstream/river tank later.. are there good sources of different kinds out there? I've been buyign from AZ gardens, but for a dedicated tank.. I'd love to do it all of the way.

I might as well start dreaming.

[andyroo]

Hillstream folk,

What about a circular/octagonal tank rather then the rectangle with intakes at one end and outlets at the other? A circle would be more efficient, with refuges from the current towards the middle?
Outlets for current along the glass and inlets in the middle?

Idea... possibly allowing more flexibility in one's fish collection? I suppose plants would get twisty...

Andyroo