Vaillantella maassi

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Mark in Vancouver
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Post by Mark in Vancouver » Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:27 am

Genuine Loaches Online magic!

Seriously, Kush, this is a major and significant contribution to the record on these fish. The might get it on in the fishtank? Amazing. It's absolutely the reverse of what I would expect from these loaches.

I'm fascinated by it. How often did this take place? Once? 7 times? I'm sure anyone lucky enough to keep these babies will be wondering what your tank parameters are - and also if there was any obvious result.

Or am I totally off, and it was territorial? Looked amorous to me!
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shari
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Post by shari » Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:11 am

Certainly seemed more like breeding than agression to me, too! One of the pair was definitely more rounded in the abdominal area than the other, and both vents seemed distended.

VERY COOL Kush! Wonder if there will be any progeny.

Like Mark, I'm wondering how often you have seen this behavior? Was it within a specific time period? Has it stopped? Have you noticed any increase or decrease in the size of the chubby-er one? And tell us more about the tank and your care of them, please 8)

Too interesting! Love these fish, and have wanted some for ages...

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Graeme Robson
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Post by Graeme Robson » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:24 am

This is one of reasons of why we love Loaches so much. Thanks Todd. Your video is very much appreciated. Now for a little bit of confusion.

Todd and I, have been discussing these actions for a long time and what we have agreed on is the two factors suggested. We can clearly see what looks like a female and male. Interesting on how the male has more colour, if in fact he is a male. Now i see this myself with the two i keep, which seem to be aberrant specimens but never the less this action is often seen with mine also which none have large abdominal area's. I can witness this on a daily basis, or maybe every 2nd day.

Indeed Territorial or breeding behavior?

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Jim Powers
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Post by Jim Powers » Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:42 am

Very interesting. I have never seen anything like that between my fish. In fact, they almost never interact at all. Maybe I have two of the same sex? Lets just hope one of you two gets some fry out of this behaviour.

Kush
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Post by Kush » Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:38 pm

Thanks everyone! It just nice to be able to give back a little to a place I've learned and will continue to learn from. :wink:

I usually see a behavior similar to this soon after a feed. More so when frozen food's are on the menu. But most of the time it's just a quick, open mouth, side to side, then on to the food. It last for maybe 5-10 seconds, with the occasional extened bouts. The participant's are usually of similar size also. This all takes place as they are coming out of their hiding spot's.

Same report as Graeme, as to the frequency of the above behavior. The behavior in this video is a bit different though. If not breeding/courting, perhaps a battle for dominance?

This video was taken back in late August. Sad to say no progeny. I wish I had a better shot of the underbelly. :x

Shari and Mark, sorry I haven't tested the tank in quite a while. Every time I've tested it in the past, my notes say Ph 6.4-6.8 and very soft water.

Graeme, I think you nailed it when you compared some of this behavior to Schisturas and Nemacheilus. Especially during feeding time.

I've never witnessed any injuries resulting from any of these squabbles. Graeme, Jim, how about you guys? Other's with V.Maassi?
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loachaholic
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Post by loachaholic » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:21 pm

The side-by-side wiggling is similar to my kuhlis when they spawned, aside from the fact that the pangios were zooming around the upper levels of the tank at the time. As I said in the other forum, I think this looks far more like mating behavior than aggression, although I admit I've never witnessed aggression in any pangio so perhaps I'm talking through my hat.

Do the maasi ever exhibit purely social behavior? Hang out together? Swim side by side? Have a beer after work? :wink: From what Graeme has been saying, they don't seem to be as social as pangios?

Mike Ophir
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Post by Mike Ophir » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:22 pm

very amazing video there! Please keep up as updated as possible for any further information. This video is groundbreaking and very valuable for the development and collection of information on this species.

Mike

Kush
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Post by Kush » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:01 pm

Loach, your's and Graeme knowledge of Pangio spawns I think will very valueable, as we try to figure this out.

Did you witness any intertwining during the spawns?

I've never seen any of the V.Maassi gravid. There are some that are a bit fat. I'm thinking some of these are the females? What do you guys think about the pics I posted, think that one's a female?
Do the maasi ever exhibit purely social behavior?
No really. There's the occasional acknowledging of each other and then it's swim on. There's a big Java fern in the tank with a large root mass that the Pangios and Maassi love to hang out in. I usually see the Kuhlis all huddle together, while there may be 2 or 3 Maassi in there too, they are in different locations in the roots. There might be one (Maassi) that's huddled with the Pangios from time to time.
If sucess or failure of this planet and of human beings depended on how I am and what I do. How would I be? What would I do?

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Graeme Robson
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Post by Graeme Robson » Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:16 pm

Hi Todd. The shape and versatility of the pangio's with breeding is different. Well defiantly different compared to the proposed V. massii actions in your video. Intertwining during the spawns? Yes the pangio's are them, especially the male, once triggered. The V. massii body's looks tense and not relaxed. It also could be how they breed or fight. We are yet to know.

My first thoughts are that one of your Massii looks to becoming female for sure. I was just adding that mine do the same actions, with none looking like the female route.


Good luck! :wink:

Kush
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Post by Kush » Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:21 pm

If sucess or failure of this planet and of human beings depended on how I am and what I do. How would I be? What would I do?

Mark in Vancouver
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Post by Mark in Vancouver » Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:03 am

This looks far more territorial to me now. They're like vindictive kuhli loaches that refuse to give up the battle.

These continue to be really important documents of behaviour in loaches we hardly ever see on the market. Do they do this all the time? Once a week?

And has anyone EVER seen behaviour like this in any species of kuhli loach? I have not. Good stuff, Kush.
Your vantage point determines what you can see.

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Graeme Robson
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Post by Graeme Robson » Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:38 am

Cheers Kush. Nice video. :D

I've witnessed my Pangio oblonga's nudging others out of the way at feeding times but no aggression is seen as of such.

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mikev
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Post by mikev » Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:27 pm

Mark in Vancouver wrote: And has anyone EVER seen behaviour like this in any species of kuhli loach? I have not.
Yes. Two times so far, involving the same Myers, and even stranger than shown on the video. No video to offer, but I can describe it if someone cares (or find the description I posted on another forum.)


PS. Absolutely great videos, btw.

Kush
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Post by Kush » Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:23 pm

And still more video, http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7230546169

This one is definitely a territorial issue. Which brings me back to the dominance question. The other 2 video's the Maassi were the same size, this one there's a bit of a difference.

Thanks for the kind word's guys. :)

Mark, Video's 2, 3 and something in-between 2 and 3 (I'm still trying to capture that, on video), are the norm. Video 3 and something in-between happen with far more occurrence, though.

Graeme, any luck with video from the Nikon? :wink:
No video to offer, but I can describe it if someone cares
If you have the time.
If sucess or failure of this planet and of human beings depended on how I am and what I do. How would I be? What would I do?

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