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Graeme Robson
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Post by Graeme Robson » Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:26 am

Your outraged? I'm bloody outraged with your approval of this!

Your care Starts from the day of ownership with any fish. This type of housing the fish is uncalled for and basically states that ignorance is present with you and other so called fishkeepers. Any plans should of been thought out with Proper consideration towards the fish.
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angelfish83
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Post by angelfish83 » Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:49 am

Exactly. To put it very bluntly and sort of childishly, if I may-

If you don't like it here, go back to monster fish keepers.

There are two very different philosophies at work here between our two forums and I don't think anyone is going to get anyone else to appologize for their viewpoint.

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H3D
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Post by H3D » Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:49 am

Graeme Robson wrote:Your outraged? I'm bloody outraged with your approval of this!

Your care Starts from the day of ownership with any fish. This type of housing the fish is uncalled for and basically states that ignorance is present with you and other so called fishkeepers. Any plans should of been thought out with Proper consideration towards the fish.
I'm sure you are aware of how all loaches are caught, captured and transported. All loaches at some point have gone through this treatment. If you buy any loach you are also condoning treatment of loaches in this manner. While this situation is not ideal I'm sure neo's loaches will be well taken care off in the future.

Now here is the point were you show your ignorance by making an assumption. I have not once said I approved of the way these loaches are being treated; I have only said that I disapprove of this childish behavior. How can you know anything about how I keep my fish from this? The goal of this site should be to educate others not to criticize them.

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angelfish83
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Post by angelfish83 » Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:51 am

Dude. Listen.

Nobody likes the way fish are caught. The point is that once theyre in your hands, the cruelty should stop if possible.

Jamming the fish together isn't ok.

Its like saying someone who used to be in jail is ok to lock in the bathroom for 12 hours a day.

They were treated like that before, so why not do it to them now?

That's your logic right?

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H3D
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Post by H3D » Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:55 am

angelfish83 wrote:Exactly. To put it very bluntly and sort of childishly, if I may-

If you don't like it here, go back to monster fish keepers.

There are two very different philosophies at work here between our two forums and I don't think anyone is going to get anyone else to appologize for their viewpoint.
Great another ignorant assumption. I am not from Monster Fishkeeps. I am from Aquaria Central. My philosophies about the treatment of fish lie very close to yours. However that does not mean I condone the this method of insulting others based on assumptions.

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H3D
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Post by H3D » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:00 am

angelfish83 wrote:Dude. Listen.

Nobody likes the way fish are caught. The point is that once theyre in your hands, the cruelty should stop if possible.

Jamming the fish together isn't ok.

Its like saying someone who used to be in jail is ok to lock in the bathroom for 12 hours a day.

They were treated like that before, so why not do it to them now?

That's your logic right?
My logic is as follows you do not know why neo has all those fish in that tank or his future plans for them without asking him. I think that this is information that is needed before you criticize someone for what they have done.

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Emma Turner
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Post by Emma Turner » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:18 am

Even if he has other plans for them, there is no need to keep them in that way until he is ready, is there? Why even post pictures of them being kept in that state.....this sort of reaction from people who truly care for the wellbeing of their fish is only to be expected.

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Post by sophie » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:32 am

Emma Turner wrote:Even if he has other plans for them, there is no need to keep them in that way until he is ready, is there? Why even post pictures of them being kept in that state.....this sort of reaction from people who truly care for the wellbeing of their fish is only to be expected.

Emma
leaving ethics aside, from an entirely pragmatic point of view, clowns quarantined in an entirely bare tank are going to come down HARD with any infection going.
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Graeme Robson
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Post by Graeme Robson » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:35 am

H3D wrote:
Graeme Robson wrote:Your outraged? I'm bloody outraged with your approval of this!

Your care Starts from the day of ownership with any fish. This type of housing the fish is uncalled for and basically states that ignorance is present with you and other so called fishkeepers. Any plans should of been thought out with Proper consideration towards the fish.
I'm sure you are aware of how all loaches are caught, captured and transported. All loaches at some point have gone through this treatment. If you buy any loach you are also condoning treatment of loaches in this manner. While this situation is not ideal I'm sure neo's loaches will be well taken care off in the future.

Now here is the point were you show your ignorance by making an assumption. I have not once said I approved of the way these loaches are being treated; I have only said that I disapprove of this childish behavior. How can you know anything about how I keep my fish from this? The goal of this site should be to educate others not to criticize them.
If you are intelligent enough, you would know that when we purchase fish they Should be the final part of transportation. On-going stress to-wards the fish is uncalled for!

In your words it may seem to be childish behavior, but in my eye's i see you defending someones else's childish behavior.
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H3D
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Post by H3D » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:46 am

Emma Turner wrote:Even if he has other plans for them, there is no need to keep them in that way until he is ready, is there? Why even post pictures of them being kept in that state.....this sort of reaction from people who truly care for the wellbeing of their fish is only to be expected.

Emma
I'm not sure of the answers to these questions. I agree with you in that I believe neo's loaches would be better off by following the advice given. My point is that there was no need for many of the childish things that were being said in this thread. Like the insinuation you are making now that the ten people who have posted on this thread from this board are the only ones who care about their loaches. I do not see any one of them making rude childish remarks about how overstocked some of the tanks in your store are. I too hope that neo will be doing some things soon to make his loaches more comfortable, but that does not mean I have to criticize him to get this point across.

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Post by H3D » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:52 am

Graeme Robson wrote:If you are intelligent enough, you would know that when we purchase fish they Should be the final part of transportation. On-going stress to-wards the fish is uncalled for!

In your words it may seem to be childish behavior, but in my eye's i see you defending someones else's childish behavior.
We do not know how neo got these fish or why. I am not defending his behavior, I am pointing out how childish it is to criticize someone behind their back like a coward without any knowledge other than a picture.

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Emma Turner
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Post by Emma Turner » Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:07 pm

H3D wrote:I do not see any one of them making rude childish remarks about how overstocked some of the tanks in your store are.
Now you have offended me big-time. :evil:

This thread has nothing to do with the store where I work.

Our fish are cared for probably better than any other shop on this planet. You have no idea of the hours we put in to care for our livestock. The tanks all have a sandy substrate, hiding places amongst bogwood, caves and the like to make their time with us as comfortable and stress-free as possible. The water quality is excellent and what you see of the stock tanks are a fraction of the total volume of water on the centrally-filtered systems, so your overstocking theory on what are essentially temporary tanks is completely unfounded.

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mikev
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Post by mikev » Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:13 pm

H3D,

Perhaps you should browse the photos from Emma's shop and consider for yourself:

Is there perhaps something wrong when the fish enjoys better conditions in the store than in the final home tank?

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shari2
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Post by shari2 » Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:23 pm

This whole thing started with outrage. It's still raging. Clearly assumptions were made based on the the link Martin posted to neo's thread over at FishGeeks ("where your fish are #1"). If you'll notice, the response over there to his post was also immediate concern.

Are you saying we here, and fogducker et all at FishGeeks are wrong to be affected the way we are? Though I am attempting to defend his right to do as he sees fit with his fish, I do think that it is not surprising that his post was seen as somewhat inflammatory. Based on the philosophy of fishkeeping that most here espouse, and which you say is similar to yours, the images clearly show a highly overstocked, bare glass box. Not what most here (or apparently there) see as 'fishkeeping'.

Granted, we don't know him. He's only showing 5 posts at FG. He may have a huge following elsewhere, and certainly is better known by some than either at FG or here. Could we have asked a zillion questions and come up with a better understanding of who he is and what his plans are for the fish? Sure. Did we come down on him hard? Um, yeah.

However, seeing that he is an experienced fishkeeper who still chooses to keep fish the way those pics display...well, it seems to me irresponsible. And his purpose, as he states was, 'i just want to show something diffrent... something that can be done... ' Yeah, he's doing it. That's the problem. We could show how it COULD be done in lots of ways that aren't optimal, but SHOULD we?

And, he can defend himself if he chooses to do so, and could have replied here with a bit of explanation or attempted to justify his 'feeder fish' setup. He hasn't. But a couple of his 'homey's' show up and start insulting people here for not reading his mind, or knowing his plans. And you call us rude? You don't like our less than accepting attitude, or the fact that we'd expect a guy who clearly knows something about fishkeeping to have some interest in the environment HE provides for them to live in, or the quality of life they experience there.

If he is at all interested in the outrage his post has incited HE should speak up. YOU should take your insults back and let HIM worry about whether he gives a sh*t about what any of us here say. So far, it seems he had more fun just playing the troll role. Your attempt at defending him shows you care, but not about the fish, just about his reputation at a board where he does not participate. I doubt he cares as much as you do. So WHY are you all over us?

and btw, insulting Emma's fish store was a low blow. Have you bothered to ask HER any questions? Do you have any idea of her setup or plans for HER fish?

feh. So you can defend neo. That's nice. Let's go back to talking about fish. Specifically loaches. And why you don't keep them in a bare box.

Frankly, to me fish are nice. They are facinating, fun, and I find keeping them enjoyable (most of the time 8) ), but they are FISH. People are more important to me. When people get all worked up over some A**hole's treatment of them I prefer to step back, think, 'yeah, he's a b*tthead' and move on. It isn't my job, or anyone else's job to educate a person who is set in his/her ways and isn't interested in my advice/experience/thoughts. Don't waste my time. Neo does not want to hear from us. YOU talk to him.

...................

Oh. And just because clowns get large, it doesn't make them monsterfishtank appropriate.
Last edited by shari2 on Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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H3D
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Post by H3D » Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:25 pm

Emma Turner wrote:
H3D wrote:I do not see any one of them making rude childish remarks about how overstocked some of the tanks in your store are.
Now you have offended me big-time. :evil:

This thread has nothing to do with the store where I work.

Our fish are cared for probably better than any other shop on this planet. You have no idea of the hours we put in to care for our livestock. The tanks all have a sandy substrate, hiding places amongst bogwood, caves and the like to make their time with us as comfortable and stress-free as possible. The water quality is excellent and what you see of the stock tanks are a fraction of the total volume of water on the centrally-filtered systems, so your overstocking theory on what are essentially temporary tanks is completely unfounded.

Emma
I do not mean to offend you as you have the nicest fish store I have ever seen. I was merely pointing out the notion that others in this thread have expressed concern that neo has too many fish in his tank and I was merely pointing out that no one criticizes the amount you have in yours. neo’s tank has a flow-through water change system that provides extremely clean water. This tank neo has the fish in is also temporary as he plans to move them to a 1000 gallon aquarium. That is why I made the comparison; there is no need to get angry.

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