Some people.............

[Martin Thoene]

nic, we're not comparing, or even considering how you keep your fish, just this idiot and how he keeps his. My fingers are in my ears on your Ray tanks though

So...you've got Loaches....what do you have?

Martin.

[angelfish83]

Martin check your email plz

[nic]

clowns queens sulawasi dojo and kuli loaches 2 other kinds but i dont remember there names what is wrong with my ray tanks

[angelfish83]

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... hp?t=43958
(shudder)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSVQ4mpFMUU
(additional shudder)

You just know if those arrowanas could kill themselves... they would...

[Steve_89]

Ok.... Wow... Alright...
Well,

No we aren't jealous of poorly planned overstocked aquariums, which are commonplace on monster fish keepers...

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... 1162466833

Like that for example...

There is a difference between a nice big 250G tank, with a reasonable number of fish in it, of any size, and abhorrid things like that where everything's smashing into everything else, nothing has space to rest or to hide or to display its natural behaviour.

That happens to be my tank buddy

Did you also know that the majority of those fish will soon be swimming in a 600gallon..8x4x30".

Please...for your own sake...be quiet unless you get the facts straight and also...do not generalize.

Are you currently providing your loaches with a 600?? Because I am

But hey...im just a monsterfishkeeper....

[shari2]

OK boys. There is too much testosterone in this thread.

This is the loach forum. Monster fishkeeping is where monster fishkeepers play. If you want to play here, please play nice, all of you.

Most of us don't have monster sized tanks here, and we don't claim to keep monster fish. We play at creating biotopes, studying our fish, and trying to house them in settings similar to their natural habitats (well, most of us ).

Personally, I know very little about monster fish, or monster fishkeeping. They are monsterfishkeepers domain. I don't plan to tell you how to keep your fish, and no one else has the 'right' to do so either. And I'd expect the same courtesy from you. You don't have to like my tanks. I don't have to like yours. But we should be civil about expressing our opinions.

If I ever want to set up a monster tank, well--guess where I'd go for info? BUT, I would also be bringing my 'baggage' of trying to simulate natural habitat as much as possible because I think it is the best way to keep fish in aquaria. You don't have to agree. I doubt I'll ever have a tank large enough to do so, so I doubt I will ever consider setting one up.

Nevertheless, all my loach fanatic friends, while we may not appreciate monster fish in all their tank bound glory, others do. They are entitled to keep the fish they like, the way they like, whether we like it or not.

And, all our new monsterfish fanatics posters, we don't have to like the way you keep your tanks, or appreciate your monsterfish as much as you do. If we did, maybe we'd be monsterfishkeepers too.

Please quit bashing each other with 'mine is bigger than yours' BS. I don't have one, and frankly, I'd prefer you keep yours in your pants.

My apologies for the off-color remark, but since this seems to be the testosterone zone I wanted to speak your language.

[Steve_89]

OK boys. There is too much testosterone in this thread.

This is the loach forum. Monster fishkeeping is where monster fishkeepers play. If you want to play here, please play nice, all of you.

Most of us don't have monster sized tanks here, and we don't claim to keep monster fish. We play at creating biotopes, studying our fish, and trying to house them in settings similar to their natural habitats (well, most of us ).

Personally, I know very little about monster fish, or monster fishkeeping. They are monsterfishkeepers domain. I don't plan to tell you how to keep your fish, and no one else has the 'right' to do so either. And I'd expect the same courtesy from you. You don't have to like my tanks. I don't have to like yours. But we should be civil about expressing our opinions.

If I ever want to set up a monster tank, well--guess where I'd go for info? BUT, I would also be bringing my 'baggage' of trying to simulate natural habitat as much as possible because I think it is the best way to keep fish in aquaria. You don't have to agree. I doubt I'll ever have a tank large enough to do so, so I doubt I will ever consider setting one up.

Nevertheless, all my loach fanatic friends, while we may not appreciate monster fish in all their tank bound glory, others do. They are entitled to keep the fish they like, the way they like, whether we like it or not.

And, all our new monsterfish fanatics posters, we don't have to like the way you keep your tanks, or appreciate your monsterfish as much as you do. If we did, maybe we'd be monsterfishkeepers too.

Please quit bashing each other with 'mine is bigger than yours' BS. I don't have one, and frankly, I'd prefer you keep yours in your pants.

My apologies for the off-color remark, but since this seems to be the testosterone zone I wanted to speak your language.

No problem.

I just didn't appreciate the fact that he had a go at my fish keeping when he had no idea what I had planned for those fish.

To think that I do not care about my fish..which was basically what he was implying..is ridiculous.

[shari2]

Clearly there seems to be a disconnect/misunderstanding at the philosophical level in this thread.

Personally, I'm sure you care about your fish. However what that concept entails may be different in both our minds.

[angelfish83]

Ok.... Wow... Alright...
Well,

No we aren't jealous of poorly planned overstocked aquariums, which are commonplace on monster fish keepers...

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... 1162466833

Like that for example...

There is a difference between a nice big 250G tank, with a reasonable number of fish in it, of any size, and abhorrid things like that where everything's smashing into everything else, nothing has space to rest or to hide or to display its natural behaviour.

That happens to be my tank buddy

Did you also know that the majority of those fish will soon be swimming in a 600gallon..8x4x30".

Please...for your own sake...be quiet unless you get the facts straight and also...do not generalize.

Are you currently providing your loaches with a 600?? Because I am

But hey...im just a monsterfishkeeper....

I dont mean to insult you personally, but in my opinion, you should have waited until you had those 600G's ready to go. that is a cruelly overpacked tank IMO.

Shari Said:
Please quit bashing each other with 'mine is bigger than yours' BS. I don't have one, and frankly, I'd prefer you keep yours in your pants. Twisted Evil

My apologies for the off-color remark, but since this seems to be the testosterone zone I wanted to speak your language.

~Why is it that when 2 or more men have a slightly passionate conversation about a topic its 'testosterone'....?

Like come on

[Martin Thoene]

Steve, great to hear that you have BIG plans for these fish. Obviously, a photograph only literally gives us a snapshot. It doesn't tell us your future plans. I'm pleased to see that you at least have a substrate in your tank.
To a large extent this thread comes down to the difference between a very crowded, bare glass box compared to a similarly large aquarium with an aesthetically pleasing, biologically sensible stocking level, and attractive decor that fulfils much of the fish's natural needs that go beyond just the water-quality.

It is, as Shari so succinctly pointed out a matter of philosophy, and just like religion, it's unlikely the two differences of opinion will ever see eye to eye.

Which is why there's Monster Fishkeepers and there's Loaches Online. Because we can agree to disagree.

I agree with Shari though angelfish83. Whereas my initial post on this was coming from a philosophical point of view, it would seem that many of the responses to it confirmed my impression that the website in question is highly testicularly driven. I would actually be really interested to know how many members on there are female. I'm totally betting that the membership demographic is very different to here where eostrogen is very much an intrinsic part of what makes this site what it is

Martin.

[nic]

there are quite a few females on there you did not answer me what is wrong with my Qtanks/grow out for my rays? bare bottom allows me to keep it clean i can see what they eat and how much.

[angelfish83]

there are quite a few females on there you did not answer me what is wrong with my Qtanks/grow out for my rays? bare bottom allows me to keep it clean i can see what they eat and how much.

Yes, its good for you. It is not good for your rays.

Rays enjoy very fine sand. They like to dig and bury themselves etc.

There is a huge noticeable jump in how happy a cory catfish is going from bare to gravel to fine gravel to sand. Rays are no different.

You are removing any stimulus from the fish's environment. Fish are smart, they need environmental stimuli...

You could see what they ate in sand and keep it equally clean if so inclined. What you are doing simply makes your life easier at the expense of the psychological wellbeing of the rays IMO

[Martin Thoene]

Philosophy is what's wrong, but that's just my opinion. I've worked in the trade, I understand the needs for cleanliness and ease of capture in that environment. I just don't agree with it in a domestic one where my philosophy is that an aquarium should be aesthetically pleasing.
Keeping a fish that loves to bury itself in sand in a bare aquarium is just wrong. But that's just my opinion.

I'm really not into monster fish, but Stingrays is one large fish that I really would love to keep one day. I think they look so cool and have great personality.

Back to Loaches..........Anyhow.....angelfish83 and I are off to the Toronto Zoo today and hey....guess what? We're going to go and review some REALLY monster tanks, talk to the Curator, and give our feedback on their shortcomings because it appears there are many.

Martin.

[angelfish83]

Back to Loaches..........Anyhow.....angelfish83 and I are off to the Toronto Zoo today and hey....guess what? We're going to go and review some REALLY monster tanks, talk to the Curator, and give our feedback on their shortcomings because it appears there are many.

Martin.

Yep. Still on for 11?

Shortcomings? There would need to be longcomings to distinguish any shortcomings from... The whole thing is a debacle. There are no gentler words to fit the bill. Martin hasn't seen yet.

Will post lots of pics tonight

QUOTE:
Are you currently providing your loaches with a 600?? Because I am

I know dude. You can piss much, much further and with much more force and grace than I could ever hope to attain. I bow down to your pissing in this, your pissing contest.

[H3D]

Some Guy Said: Instead of all this very childish whining and name calling why don't all of you contact neo and give him some sound advice?

___________

Yes. That would be much more reasonable than coming in here, on your first post ever on this forum, and suggesting how a group of people you've never met should comport themselves and what their course of action should be. Much more reasonable indeed.

The reason I and many others choose not to post on this board is due to the behavior of those who do. I chose to post my suggestion because I was outraged by comments that were being made about my fellow board member. It is unfair to make assumptions about the intentions of someone just from a few pictures that they posted. This website contains a wealth of knowledge but that does not condone the rude behavior of some of its members. neo has plans to take care of his new acquisitions very well, however no one here knows that because no one bothered to ask him. Instead certain individuals publicly made negative comments about him and I believe that those individuals should also publicly make an apology to him. Everyone here seems to be ignoring what they said previously like nothing happened instead of owning up to their mistakes.