PHOTOS

The forum for the very best information on loaches of all types. Come learn from our membership's vast experience!

Moderator: LoachForumModerators

FranM
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: PHOTOS

Post by FranM » Mon May 21, 2018 4:36 am

One more thing. Was reading that GH that is very low is also low in magnesium and other minerals that fish need. This is why I’m trying to raise GH now.

I definitely want to stock new tank— two more clowns, yo-yos, couple dozen tetras and/or barbs and a pair of a cichlid (rams possibly) and/or gouramis.

Will keeping checking TDS daily and will do a w/c in a couple days. I think the sinking pellets mess up the water.

Loachloach
Posts: 787
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:11 pm

Re: PHOTOS

Post by Loachloach » Tue May 22, 2018 12:45 am

Increasing the GH will also increase the TDS.

My guess is that your water will have trace amounts of it, enough for the fish, especially if the tank water is regularly changed. Soft water fish also have different mechanisms of utilizing really small amounts. However, I've read that if reverse osmosis water is used without re-mineralizing it, even soft water fish can get spinal deformities. . There was a really interesting article I read once about kuhli loaches that were kept in a peat moss, black water, RO water tank that eventually did get spinal deformities and it was the reason the owner wrote that article. In nature fish have huge amounts of water running through their habitat and despite the low mineral levels, things get replenished. In fish tanks not so....I often read here, even on this forum, hard water being pointed as the reason for demise of kuhli loaches. Mine are in a hard water tank and have been doing well for 5 years now, so are my clown loaches of 6 years. I have harlequin rasboras, denison barbs, none come from hard water habitats and all are healthy and colorful. Water quality in terms of least pollution is the major player in fish living or dying in my opinion. Some people just get their logic mixed up and contribute the deaths to other things...

You can just keep some crushed coral in the filter. You don't need much to get a readable level of anything. Enough will dissolve to supplement the fish. When adding anything in the tank, it is even more important to keep the total TDS steady. The individual measures are not that important so you don't need to match a GH reading each time for example.

For stocking the new tank, I'd personally choose to add smaller species, such as some small schoolers, tetras, rasboras, etc...Once you up your loaches schools, etc...on top of the silver dollars, you'll have a reasonable load already, at least in my opinion. Although your new tank is 125G, it is still only a 4 footer and that's not much space horizontally so think of some top dwellers instead. My big group of harlequin rasboras stay completely out of reach of the bottom dwellers and have the top half to themselves for the most part, except for feeding time. I did use to overstock years back It didn't work out well for me or the fish long term...

FranM
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: PHOTOS

Post by FranM » Tue May 22, 2018 5:29 am

Yes I am concerned about upping the load to a point I’m at again. I’ve felt guilty only keeping two clowns and two yo-yos despite what the recommendations are, however, I will say, they are not reserved at all. They are out all the time and in all levels of the tank. I only have four silver dollars. I’d be willing to keep it to just what I have now in addition to some colorful tetra schools. I love the Denison Barbs but they can get quite large. Maybe only a school of 8 of those and I’d like to get a school of red Serpae,14 perhaps. I like Rosy Barbs too. Not sure yet. One thing I’ve decided to do is keep the smaller HOB filter on the 55 gallon once the others are transported to the new tank with the larger HOB and use the 55 as the quarantine tank.

When I get home from work today I will test TDS. If it has raised significantly since Sunday I will do a 75% wc. Also I keep the roots of a handful of golden pothos in filter but there are no rotting roots.

Loachloach
Posts: 787
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:11 pm

Re: PHOTOS

Post by Loachloach » Wed May 23, 2018 12:46 am

You have plenty of time to think and research what you want to add. There is so much choice. I couldn't even suggest anything because its a personal choice.
I for example always go with something that lives longer than 3-4 years. I can't stand the thought of my fish dying soon and I am not one of those fish keepers that likes to change fish. I get attached to what I have and I am content of keeping the same fish for years. I think lifespan of all mine is 8 years + . Then I think stocking....do I really want that fish or this fish..., are they going to get on together. I watch youtube videos trying to convince myself either way......I always let a few days, even weeks pass and think again whether I still want that fish...

If you keep the 55G as quarantine, give yourself time and take your time choosing. It's easy buying the fish.

Denison Barbs are big enough, not that they can't go into your tank but they'll limit your choice of any other fish. If you go smaller, you may have room to play around with more fish. In my 240G, which I consider fully stocked, I have 13 clown loaches, 9 denison barbs, 5 SAEs, 10 corydoras, 6 kuhli loaches, 34 harlequin rasboras and one bristlenose pleco. Can I put more fish, yes, I can and I may get away with it for a while but its just more work long term....Then I can't stand the thought of getting sick fish and that happens when the stocking is on the high side. I am shattered during the week from work and life duties and its hard enough spending several hours each week at my tanks. I always think long term and the desire to overstock dwindles quickly..

If I were in your situation, I wouldn't know exactly what to add to the tank. I think you have the right ideas. Just make sure that what you get is really what you want and you're prepared to take care of them whatever it takes. The tank maintenance will not be any harder on a larger tank, if not easier....

Here is a recent video of my crowd. As you can see the tank can look busy and the biggest clown loaches are not even in the video. As the clown loaches grow I'd have to upgrade again one day....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB8sShr ... e=youtu.be

and one more below, one of the larger clowns appears briefly from in and out of the pvc tube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIwT-rM ... e=youtu.be

FranM
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: PHOTOS

Post by FranM » Wed May 23, 2018 5:46 am

Your videos are great. Your clowns are stellar.

I have plenty of time to plan the new tank that’s for sure! And I do want it easy keeping while the tank looks healthy, colorful, and busy. I’ve always been keen on red fish in the tank and I love how they stand out against greens and dark backgrounds. A huge school of red tetras to me is beautiful.

Yes, it’s devastating to me when a fish perishes—and in my case a year ago I couldn’t understand why I lost three yo-yos in a matter of three days! I was doing regular w/c’s like if I do now but I wasn’t loookg at KH and GH. I literally burst into tears when I found the two when I came home from a Friday night to Saturday morning and then the third on Monday! That’s when I was ready to throw in the towel! Done!! Then my fiancé came home with two yo-yos on Tuesday. If it weren’t for that I seriously don’t know if I’d be where I am with my fish plans today. This isn’t a joke to me. To me success is keeping the same fish for years. Look at how I’ve managed Mr Slim over a three year period of unsteady health. I’m sure I’ve unintentionally stunted the two clowns. The yo-yos, however, are flourishing and growing beautifully. They are part of the new way of watching water chemistry thanks to you and Nancy.

It’s always been about the clowns and yo-yos so maybe I should keep it that way—two more clowns, two more yo-yos and a big school of tetras. Maybe a bristlenose and then done.

If I had my way I’d have a fish room—discus in one tank. Angels and other Amazonian fish in another. And a true community of the smaller fish—dwarf goruami, tetras, mollies and platies... anyway.............

Loachloach
Posts: 787
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:11 pm

Re: PHOTOS

Post by Loachloach » Wed May 23, 2018 2:16 pm

I like your plan. I'd probably personally up the numbers of both loach species and then get a school of colorful small top dwelling fish. I don't know about the silver dollars and yo-yos but even the largest of my clowns have not touched a small fish yet.

As for the bristlenose, although I've had mine for 6 years now, he isn't the most interesting fish I've owned and I sometimes forget I have him. He's very tough though and can stand his ground with the biggest clown loaches who've been known to try stealing his food. I guess he's cute in his own way.

FranM
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: PHOTOS

Post by FranM » Wed May 23, 2018 3:37 pm

Four clowns, four yo-yos, silver dollars are four already and I don’t mention but not forgotten my one lone cherry barb left.

Serpae tend to inhabit mid range of the tank? And do you mean get even more loaches? Six and six?

I hear bristlenose eat algae. Some say it’s a myth. I like little otos but don’t know how they would fare. I really like red tailed black sharks and I’ve always wanted another. He used to do a good job on the algae himself. Lots of character. He would spar with clowns himself.

That does make sense to consider mid to top level fish. I haven’t really thought about it because I’ve basically kept the same things for so long. I did like the cherry barba because they’re so peaceful and they basically swim everywhere. But the females are so drab although I did have some nice yellow and golden ones. I see that the Serpae probably prefer mid to lower level and I hear what you’re saying. Of course the ones I like don’t dwell at the surface. I’m not thrilled with surface fish anyway because I really don’t want jumpers every time I open the lid. As you said I have plenty of time to think about it and I know when I make a decision I am stuck with it. Thanks for giving me lots of stuff to consider, Loach!

Loachloach
Posts: 787
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:11 pm

Re: PHOTOS

Post by Loachloach » Thu May 24, 2018 12:49 am

Just about the top dwellers, I had platies for a good while and although they do swim in upper levels, at feeding time they'd line up right with the loaches for food. So when I was picking my new "small" fish, I picked fish that keep to the surface when it comes feeding time, to prevent overcrowding at the bottom. As for swimming, they swim around from mid to top level and sometimes lower. Depending on the fish, they won't necessarily jump just because the lid is open.

Ottos will fair well in a larger tank, if there's a group of them. I kept some for a few years with my clown loaches.

I've never kept a red tail shark but I hear they get on well with clown loaches in particular.
And do you mean get even more loaches? Six and six?
How about 5 and 5 :lol:

FranM
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: PHOTOS

Post by FranM » Thu May 24, 2018 9:03 pm

I would like the Otos, afraid the silver dollars may mistake them for food. The otos can be the last thing I add if algae becomes a problem.

I don’t know where I got the number six from in regards to the number of loaches to keep! I was actually thinking four and four! I don’t where the hell six came from.

Ever had Congo tetras?

Thanks!! 😃

Loachloach
Posts: 787
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:11 pm

Re: PHOTOS

Post by Loachloach » Thu May 24, 2018 10:06 pm

No, I haven't kept congo tetras but I think redshark1 had them with his clown loaches. Nice Fish.

FranM
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: PHOTOS

Post by FranM » Fri May 25, 2018 3:08 pm

So five days from the last water change TDS is at 231 when on the 20th (after baking soda) it was 211. Not a ridiculous jump I don’t think. Doing a big water change now, more than my usual, planning to remove 70% water.

GH and KH have both dropped. PH holding steady at too high a reading—8+.

Loachloach
Posts: 787
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:11 pm

Re: PHOTOS

Post by Loachloach » Fri May 25, 2018 3:43 pm

So five days from the last water change TDS is at 231 when on the 20th (after baking soda) it was 211. Not a ridiculous jump I don’t think. Doing a big water change now, more than my usual, planning to remove 70% water.

GH and KH have both dropped. PH holding steady at too high a reading—8+.
20 ppm sound good to me. Bring back the TDS further down via large water changes and eventually you can aim at an increase of no more than 20-30ppm between water changes. This way things will get back to stable without much of a shift between tank and tap. If you see too much of an increase, you increase the water changes. It may not be needed to be done as often as you're doing now but do it on per need basis, as you test the TDS and keep it within the range you think stays stable closest to your tap water value.

The pH should hold steady as long as there's a KH reading. The only worry is never let the KH drop to zero but as long as there;s even a small measure, pH will hold. Don't ever try to match a GH measure. It's a small part of the entire picture so aim at keeping the TDS relatively steady.

FranM
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: PHOTOS

Post by FranM » Fri May 25, 2018 5:33 pm

Hi Loach. Thanks.

I took out easily 2/3 of tank water and after Prime and baking soda TDS is 170. The larger water change definitely made a difference. You were quite right.

I’ve been keeping KH between 3-4. I know that is good. I wish PH were lower but it comes out the tap high. There was a time when PH in that tank 6.6-7!

Loachloach
Posts: 787
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:11 pm

Re: PHOTOS

Post by Loachloach » Fri May 25, 2018 6:18 pm

I wish PH were lower but it comes out the tap high. There was a time when PH in that tank 6.6-7!
It's only natural that you "wish" your pH be at a certain value because that's how your perceive soft water due to reading limited information. However, when your TDS for exampe is up to over 300, which TDS you didn't use to measure before, the water was far from being soft or good for your fish. That same water you never tested for TDS had a pH of 6.6-7 but it was polluted and acidic but most likely not soft...Ph is related to a ratio between H+ and OH- and it is not a complete picture of the water stats. pH in nature is constantly changing, even on a daily basis.

There is another thing I want to mention. Don't get obsessed with water stats. Whatever you do, you need to observe the fish and see if it agrees with them.

FranM
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: PHOTOS

Post by FranM » Fri May 25, 2018 6:41 pm

Well I definitely feel that the KH should remain at a constant and that there needs to be SOME reading! I had zero to a half prior to baking soda. I saw the pothos plant do better with a KH reading. I thought that was the answer for Mr Slim too, then he got his black spots and some discoloration again. BUT at least he’s not skinny. He’s not worse coloration wise but not even toned either.

Thanks for being there still—19 pages later.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 118 guests