PHOTOS

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Bas Pels
Posts: 360
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:08 am

Re: PHOTOS

Post by Bas Pels » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:01 am

Loachloach wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:34 pm
I graduated in Chemistry in 1992. When did you?
Oh, how I love people boasting about their education.......Yours stopped in 1992. Mine is still ongoing...

"Education is what remains after one has forgotten what one has learned in school"
Albert Einstein
After this insult, I will refrain from any form of help, or advise for you.

Sorry for your fish

Loachloach
Posts: 787
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:11 pm

Re: PHOTOS

Post by Loachloach » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:02 pm

Bas Pels wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:01 am
Loachloach wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:34 pm
I graduated in Chemistry in 1992. When did you?
Oh, how I love people boasting about their education.......Yours stopped in 1992. Mine is still ongoing...

"Education is what remains after one has forgotten what one has learned in school"
Albert Einstein
After this insult, I will refrain from any form of help, or advise for you.

Sorry for your fish
The advise is not for me but for FranM who has not said anything wrong to you.
Bas Pels wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:49 am
I graduated in Chemistry in 1992. When did you?
Bas Pels wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:05 am
From the above I mostly see people don´t know what KH is.
Perhaps you aren't so innocent yourself? You started on a negative note.

NancyD
Posts: 1608
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:17 pm
Location: SF bay area,US

Re: PHOTOS

Post by NancyD » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:04 pm

Fran, I think you should aim for at least 3 Gdh KH just to be safer from large changes. As Loachloach said, there are always holidays or illnesses that can interfere with the best water change schedule, better to have some leeway.

My husband is a medicinal chemist (30+ years) & absolutely hates when I ask fish tank water questions, lol. He explains & draws structures, (but there's more to our tanks than lab test tube experiments, my take). He pretty much agreed with Bas Pels from his very quick glance...but did say "carbonic acid" is a false idea, it's not an stable compound even in the shortest of terms, it doesn't actually exist (my words, not his)....Then he segues into if this was a (pick an element :roll: ) instead of sodium, it would be this (more structures :( ) that breaks down into...goodness knows what :?

As far as CO2 toxicity goes, I thought Tom Barr did real tank comparisons & it's more a lack of sufficient oxygen rather than just high CO2 level that is problematic to fish...It "was" thought at higher co2 there was less oxygen in the water, but that seems not to be the case, they're not reciprocal numbers. He advocates surface movement for oxygen rather than atmospheric, or added co2, off-gassing co2 is not so much an issue. Now, I'm just paraphrasing as I understood it. I'm only a casual reader of adding co2 & all it's issues. I haven't tried adding co2, yet, although I might someday but not with fish at first.

I'm all for tank surface movement, most loaches like a good oxygen level, & we all here love loaches :D
Image

Loachloach
Posts: 787
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:11 pm

Re: PHOTOS

Post by Loachloach » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:01 am

In simple terms:

If you dose CO2 this is what happens:

1) CO2 + H2O <=> H2CO3
2) H2CO3 <=>[ H+] + [HCO3- ]

If you dose soda bicarbonate, this is what happens:

NaHCO3 + H2O ------> Na+ + H2CO3 + [OH-]

What we're trying to raise in Fran's tank is:

Total Alkalinity = [HCO3-] + [OH-] - [H+]

From the total alkalinity formula you can see that [HCO3-] and [OH-] contributes positively to total alkalinity and [H+] contributes negatively to total alkalinity.

So when you're adding CO2, you're essentially adding equal amounts of [HCO3-] and [H+], cancelling each other, hence alkalinity is unaltered.

When you are adding soda bicarbonate, you're adding both [HCO3-] and [OH-], both of which contribute positively to alkalinity, hence alkalinity rises...

Loachloach
Posts: 787
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:11 pm

Re: PHOTOS

Post by Loachloach » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:11 am

NancyD wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:04 pm

As far as CO2 toxicity goes, I thought Tom Barr did real tank comparisons & it's more a lack of sufficient oxygen rather than just high CO2 level that is problematic to fish...
The concentration of CO2 in water is independent of the concentration of O2 and vice versa. One can have a tank fully saturated with oxygen and still kill all their fish by toxic CO2 levels. Although all fish can tolerate certain CO2 levels fairly well, in high concentrations CO2 is toxic to fish. The toxicity level is species specific and not the same for all critters. Many CO2 users have wiped out tanks with faulty gear...or wiped out just one species of fish, others surviving and seemingly unaffected.....

Oxygen on its own, is extremely important because it contributes to all the positive chemical reactions we're trying to achieve in aquariums, including nitrification and aerobic decomposition, the most notable. Also fish need oxygen to breathe, same as we do....

In terms of pH, following the same logic in my previous post, as pH represents the concentration of [H+] vs [OH-]

When you add [H+] as in the case of CO2, the pH level drops.

When you add [OH-] as in the case of soda bicarbonate, the pH level rises.

If your tank contains equal concentrations of [H+] and [OH-], you achieve a pH of 7. You can shift the balance lower(decrease pH) by adding [H+] or higher(increase pH), by adding [OH-].

FranM
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: PHOTOS

Post by FranM » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:49 am

So Nancy and Loach, thank you. I know the CO2 discussion was beyond me but I’ve read everything and all views. I don’t plan on adding any co2 because I don’t have plants.

What did happen yesterday was water change Friday (sometimes it turns out to be a Sat or Sun). As I was filling the tank I added a full tsp of baking soda. I waited an hour and tested parameters. Finally, using an API testing kit, the KH finally turned color after the THIRD drop. This is the highest it’s been in probably years. (Not that this has anything to do with anything, but when I was in my old town in RI, there was no added chlorine or chloramines so I never used a conditioner AND I decided one day let’s test GH and KH because of stuff I’ve read. The tap was 2. The tank pretty much stayed the same. HOWEVER, nitrates out of the tap was between 5-10. So you can’t win).

After the water change and added baking soda, I used the Tetra Easy Balance which is meant to maintain. I will check tomorrow to be sure it still takes 3 drops to change KH color test. If it does not I will be disappointed.

On a not as bright note, since I ceased the medicated food because I saw improvement, the skinny clown is losing weight again. Plus I think the food pollutes the tank faster and I was glad to get a break from it. It was Nancy or Loach who suggested Flubendazole right into the water. I always felt Metronidazole and Flubendazole were pretty interchangeable. I’m still willing to give the Flubendazole a try. Which brand is the safest for loaches?

One other thing, please. The difference between Flubendazole, Fenbendazole and Praziquantel. Prazipro was very helpful in the last bout of skinny disease but didn’t seem helpful when I tried it last abut a month ago. However the first time I used Prazipro, clown seemed to be gasping and lethargic. That’s why I thought flukes must be at heart of issue. This poor thing has gone through a lot and still, from 2015 when this all started, he/ she still pulls on.

Thank you both very much.

Loachloach
Posts: 787
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:11 pm

Re: PHOTOS

Post by Loachloach » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:04 pm

FranM wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:49 am
On a not as bright note, since I ceased the medicated food because I saw improvement, the skinny clown is losing weight again. Plus I think the food pollutes the tank faster and I was glad to get a break from it. It was Nancy or Loach who suggested Flubendazole right into the water. I always felt Metronidazole and Flubendazole were pretty interchangeable. I’m still willing to give the Flubendazole a try. Which brand is the safest for loaches?

One other thing, please. The difference between Flubendazole, Fenbendazole and Praziquantel. Prazipro was very helpful in the last bout of skinny disease but didn’t seem helpful when I tried it last abut a month ago. However the first time I used Prazipro, clown seemed to be gasping and lethargic. That’s why I thought flukes must be at heart of issue. This poor thing has gone through a lot and still, from 2015 when this all started, he/ she still pulls on.

Thank you both very much.
Generally speaking, praziquantel treats flat worms, i.e. tape worms, flukes, etc.. These are normally common in wild caught fish. Praziquantel also has some effect in certain parasitic organisms but very limited.

Metrodinazole treats hexamita, i.e. spironocleus vortens parasite, it is also a mild antibiotic.

Flubendazole treats round worms, tape worms like flukes, some parasites and also hexamita! It is a lot more round treatment than any of the other meds we are familiar with. It will cover the effect of your medicated food and a lot more on top of that!

Fenbendazole is similar to Flubendazole but not as effective and not as safe....

I suggested you try Flubendazole.

What I use is "Kusuri Wormer Plus" which is basically Flubendazole based med. It is dosed once, wait 4 days, dose one more time. It is eventually completely broken down in aquariums, so no need of any mechanical removal of the med. It is extremely safe for fish, but not safe for inverts. You can do a water change between the two rounds.

FranM
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: PHOTOS

Post by FranM » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:58 pm

I will look for Kusiri online. I hope I can get it. Thank you!!

Loachloach
Posts: 787
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:11 pm

Re: PHOTOS

Post by Loachloach » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:16 pm

If you can't get it. I can buy it here and send it to you. Let me know.

FranM
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: PHOTOS

Post by FranM » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:12 pm

eBay has Kusuri. My concern is the dosing amount. One packet treats 500 gallons. I have a 55 gallon. Would I have enough to do the recommended rounds of dosing? My guess is yes.

Tank parameters are the same as yesterday. I’m not thrilled with PH being 7.6-7.8. But you and Nancy are ok with I I believe. KH still 3.

Thank you!

Loachloach
Posts: 787
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:11 pm

Re: PHOTOS

Post by Loachloach » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:24 pm

The dosage instructions will be on the package.
I believe it was one scoop(comes in the pack) for 130 litres...Anyhow, it will be written on the pack itself.
I’m not thrilled with PH being 7.6-7.8. But you and Nancy are ok with I I believe. KH still 3.
Yes, that's ok and your fish should be too. pH is a measure of [H+] vs [OH-] and nothing else so unless one knows what's moving/causing a certain pH value, it doesn't mean much. In your case we're moving the total alkalinity or what your liquid test kit calls it "KH" , so we're aware of exactly why the pH goes up and it is not making your water harder....It is still soft water with a higher pH. What is the TDS value now?

FranM
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: PHOTOS

Post by FranM » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:27 pm

I forgot to do TDS. I may not get a chance to go home tomorrow to check.

I just wanted to know about dosing to make sure the small amount will cover what I need. I may search for instructions.

Ty.

Loachloach
Posts: 787
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:11 pm

Re: PHOTOS

Post by Loachloach » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:35 pm

I have a 5g pack of Kusuri Wormer plus....5g treats 500gallons....Plenty enough for many treatments if your tank is 55G. Its a handy med to have on hand, especially if introducing new fish.

On the packet it says use 0.3g or one level scoop(0.5ml scoop included) for every 30 UK gallons (136.3 litres)

For your tank that means 1.5 scoops for one treatment, then in 4 days another dose. That's not including any extra water volume you may have from external filtration but I think you said you don't have external filters.

FranM
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: PHOTOS

Post by FranM » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:49 pm

Thanks Loach!! 😃

FranM
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: PHOTOS

Post by FranM » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:52 pm

I checked TDS and it is 149 in the tank 87 out of the tap. I’ve already felt the KH was dropping just a little so I added another half teaspoon of baking soda. When I did the KH test, it seemed on the second drop the water turned a little aqua rather than stay the brighter blue. Also the pH dropped just a little, maybe .2.

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