Do hillstream loaches sift through sand?

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Diana
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Re: Do hillstream loaches sift through sand?

Post by Diana » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:39 pm

I agree that changing TDS can indeed kill fish. It is very important that the fish keeper knows the water parameters in their tap and in their tank(s).
In my case I know it is the gas bubbles. GH, KH, TDS and all other tests show the new water is good, no serious change in mineral levels. Just the bubbles, and only when the water is very cold, from the pipes under the street. In summer I can do very large direct water changes, just adding dechlor, and the fish are fine.

Do you have plants in the tank you are talking about in the last post? Perhaps the plants are taking enough of the nutrients that the algae cannot grow.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

Loachloach
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Re: Do hillstream loaches sift through sand?

Post by Loachloach » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:02 am

Do you have plants in the tank you are talking about in the last post? Perhaps the plants are taking enough of the nutrients that the algae cannot grow.
Yes, there is plants. They've exploded and right now the tank is full. There's stem plants instead of crypts so even worse enemy for algae I guess...

Diana
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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: Do hillstream loaches sift through sand?

Post by Diana » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:09 pm

Yes, most stem plants grow faster than crypts, so will vacuum up the nutrients as fast as they show up in the water.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

Loachloach
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Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:11 pm

Re: Do hillstream loaches sift through sand?

Post by Loachloach » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:26 pm

Thanks Diana, yes, the stem plants weren't a good idea....

News!!!

Today I went out to get a bag of round pebbles from the builder supplies. I decided to pass through the local fish shop and guess what!! First time ever they had a more "exotic" hillstream loaches. In fact, they rarely have any hillstream loaches at all. So I come home with 8 new hillstream loaches and no tank!
The loaches are dark with white spots and blue tails/fins. A couple maybe a different species, not sure. I think they're either gastromyzon scitulus
or gastromyzon ctenocephalus.

So I rush home and start setting up a tank for them...Poor things had to stay in the bag until I do so. I have a plastic bin I had used for my clown loaches when their tank broke. Filled below the water line it holds around 100 litres of water.

I have an external filter 1400 L/H which I filled with media from one of the filters from my clown loach pond. I also stole one of the sponge pre-filters as well, which is cycled too. I put sand, but its brand new. I put some of the round stones I bought, so obviously brand new too but I also added 3 big ones that were in the pond and have some sort of slime on them, not much algae I can see though....I also added one planted basket the media of which has been in the pond for over a year....So I really hope I have the cycle part covered. I added two large anubias species and one planted pot with small crypts from another tank...

Well, here's the result! I have to get light....

Image

Also, if the fish make it, I am going to add one of these below. I thought they're really cool for hillstream set up.. Also, their tank will be changed eventually as I was planning on a 300 litre set up..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odFqBdTcTDI

Questions, are the fish doomed if they stay in this tank or should they go in a tank with matured surfaces? I placed a blanched courgette. They are not interested in it. I asked in the shop if they had eaten, the one said no....He said they just stayed on the glass....He's lost some of them too.....Its been a few good hours, their colour looks normal, not pale or anything. Some of them are stuck on the sides, some are on the stones. One is behind the pre-filter sponge.....Just checked on them again, all bar the one behind the sponge are on the stones...

Any advise how I can get them through this the best way considering the situation...

I forgot to say. I did put a heater but I set it at 20C. The temperature is 21C so the heater hasn't turned on at all.
Also, I did not put them in the snail/shrimp tank because I wanted to de-worm them and the dewormer will kill the snails and shrimp perhaps.

NancyD
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Re: Do hillstream loaches sift through sand?

Post by NancyD » Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:34 pm

Congrats on your impulse buy. I think you'll be fine as far as cycling goes. I would try more of your "slime" rocks in rotation & maybe algae wafers.

Here's a pic of telling the 2 apart https://www.loaches.com/species-index/g ... n-scitulus.

I have 3 ctenocephalus I see mostly on the glass, sometimes eating auf wuchs gel food. They are little bit pushy toward the sewellia over food & "good" rocks. 2 of mine look the same underneath, 1 different, but I never see more than 1 at a time from above. I have never seen them eat blood worms, pellets or flakes but they might.

Good luck!
Image

Loachloach
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Re: Do hillstream loaches sift through sand?

Post by Loachloach » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:30 pm

Here's a pic of telling the 2 apart https://www.loaches.com/species-index/g ... n-scitulus.
Thanks Nancy. The problem is I only saw that the tails/caudal fins are blue but I didn't pay attention to the pattern. Two of them didn't have blue tails/fins, but white ones with a similar to the blue ones pattern, and they had bigger white spots on their backs. I am not certain they're different species. but they may be... In the shop they said they came as one species...
I have 3 ctenocephalus I see mostly on the glass, sometimes eating auf wuchs gel food. They are little bit pushy toward the sewellia over food & "good" rocks. 2 of mine look the same underneath, 1 different, but I never see more than 1 at a time from above. I have never seen them eat blood worms, pellets or flakes but they might..
That's bad news. I am hoping they eat as well as the beaufortia ones....But I think they come from completely different places...
They're perking up now and moving around a bit more. The one from behind the filter has moved on too somewhere else. One is on the old slimy stones.... Thanks god at least one loach found them... I'll try them on the same pellets I feed the other loaches. I feed NLS cichlid and Algae max mixed in the same jar. I actually stuck some to the zucchini but no-one is approaching it...I saw one climbing the emersed plant basket, and that must have slime on it too as its been in the other tank for over a year...So there are a few surfaces for them to explore, including the large anubias leaves if they find them....

Also, the new loaches seem a tad bigger than beaufortia ones..They're sort of longer and slightly narrower in appearance perhaps.

I fed the beaufortia hillstreams bloodworms again. One of them was on the glass for an hour with half of bloodworm sticking out of its mouth. At some stage a shrimp came along and started eating the bloodworm from the other side, lol.....I don't think they're quite able to eat blodd worms...But they do like them...I actually think they're rather sucking on them instead of consuming the lot....

Loachloach
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Re: Do hillstream loaches sift through sand?

Post by Loachloach » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:35 pm

Based on the link, I think mine are G. ctenocephalus because they definitely have coloured caudal fins but I could be wrong. I'll have a better look once I get better light inside there.

Loachloach
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Re: Do hillstream loaches sift through sand?

Post by Loachloach » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:27 pm

Questions:

Do they need any sort of caves for natural behaviour?

Are panda corydoras suitable? I was thinking I may need some cleaners with them and reading panda corys prefer low temps.

How high should the flow be, as in tank size vs flow rate? At the moment I have 14x.


Updates: Right now all of them seem quite active. They've perked up a lot. Perhaps they're night fish? Two were having a dominance push nose to nose. Two landed on the zucchini, not sure they're there to eat or just using it like a stone...The two loaches I mentioned earlier, which are slightly different in colour/markings, are also way smaller. Perhaps they're just younger....don't know.

Also, I won't be able to swap mature stones between tanks for at least a few weeks, until I am sure the loaches don't carry anything that can be passed on to my other fish.

NancyD
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Re: Do hillstream loaches sift through sand?

Post by NancyD » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:05 am

I've never seen my ctenos in any caves but I have a ton of plants & lots rounded rocks, it's hard to see clearly.

My thoughts on panda corys...they're not really up to hillstream loach current. Temp-wise I think they're OK, I don't heat my hilly tank. Don't be in a hurry to try them IMO.

14x should be fine...but maybe not for C. panda without a "safe" low current zone, I haven't done that combination.

Go slow & get the new gastros feeding well, that would be my first concern right now. Then worming if you think they need it...they might, but I didn't need to tx mine. My gastro, sewellia F-1s & most stiphodons all came the same person, same tank, 6 years now. I think the gobies are dying off but I saw 1 tonight :) Botia loaches seem much more internal parasite prone than hillys but that may not be a correct assumption on my part.
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Loachloach
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Re: Do hillstream loaches sift through sand?

Post by Loachloach » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:12 am

I already dosed the de-wormer. My logic being that if they do have worms/parasites, I'll never get them to eat, and from what I gathered in the shop, they haven't eaten since they were delivered about a week ago. Their bellies aren't round by any means but not completely emaciated yet...
As for clown loaches, I don't find them very prone to parasites neither do I find them prone to ich.....My first group was first dewormed after 4 years or so. They didn't need it but I took precautions with the new ones.

This morning I woke them up with some sinking pellets. They seem to smell the food and started running around like headless chickens but they don't seem to know how to get to it. Should I drop one of my other hillstreams to teach them how to sand sift :lol: Having said that, the behaviour is a lot like that of my other hillstreams when I drop food...They start appearing from everywhere...

They're going around the bare stones as if there's food on them, lol. I don't know if its a good or a bad sign but the activity level is high right now. They're flying around everywhere. The colours are good. The zucchini is not a hit :( I never fed the other hillstreams veg because even ottos I kept weren't that keen on veg, despite all the online stories I've read...And I kept them alive for years....I'll leave the zucchini in the tank just in case as it may grow some infusoria on it.

As for panda corys, not certain either but I've seen certain corydoras in the wild in quite the rapid water. I don't think the flow is a problem to them. I kept some of mine in flow as high as 20X without a problem, although eventually I did dial it down because it was the clown loaches that didn't like that high flow and hid in the caves. The panda corys are too small though plus not all corydoras come from the same habitats/enjoy the same conditions....Tough choices but I may need a clean up crew...Or I should just roll up my sleeves instead :D

Loachloach
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Re: Do hillstream loaches sift through sand?

Post by Loachloach » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:13 am

Well, here come the bad news. I found one on the floor dried up.... :( It must have happened sometime today because this morning I actually looked around the tank for jumpers...There's a wet spot on the floor where the poor thing had struggled...

I did a water change, just in case...I also put one of other tank lights over for the day to encourage some algae/micro organism growth.

The jumper was one of the smaller, different looking loaches and now I am almost certain that the different ones are Gastromyzon scitulus and the rest are Gastromyzon ctenocephalus. The tail patterning in G.scitulus is completely different, its got more black on it and the black is not straight lines but broken ones. From a close up the tail is actually blue but not as blue as in the G.stenocephalus. Also, the body of the one left G.scitulus has bigger white dots. The G.stenocephalus definitely have finer/smaller more uniform size dots. At least that's the preliminary opinion...

I took one picture of one of them during a water change. It's a G. stenocephalus, or I think it is. I'll try to take picture of the "different" one when I can, if they survive :(

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nhkg
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Re: Do hillstream loaches sift through sand?

Post by nhkg » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:36 pm

I have never seen hillstream loach jump, but they can climb on glass.
You must have tank covered.

Loachloach
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Re: Do hillstream loaches sift through sand?

Post by Loachloach » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:25 pm

That's what I meant, it must have climbed up and fell over.

Yes, the tank should be covered ideally but not easy to do on that plastic thing...There's droplets from the filter on the parts above water so easier for them to do on wet surface. But I think the issue is water quality rather than anything else. My other hillstreams don't dare climb the glass. They stop at the water line. Or perhaps different species are

I bought some NLS nutrigel and Repashy Soilent Green and Bottom grazer. I hope it arrives by the end of next week. I also ordered a light unit. I'll be swapping the one I have until that happens.

And I put stones in the planted tank. I took out a bunch of crypts from the left side. I cut the lot of hydrophila down to a stump, hopefully it regrows. Now lets see if they stones will get some algae going and hopefully my older hillsteams like the change. It doesn't look very good but who cares :)

Loachloach
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Re: Do hillstream loaches sift through sand?

Post by Loachloach » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:50 pm

Stones are exciting stuff, lol

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Feeding the loaches bloodworms was a bad idea. One of them that had the worm out of his mouth yesterday, still had it in his mouth today...I hope he's ok and the worm finally dissolves somehow..No more worms for them.

Loachloach
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Re: Do hillstream loaches sift through sand?

Post by Loachloach » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:57 pm

I put a bit of a net at the front where the loach must have climbed. The plastic bin is bulding at that side so its probably easier for them to get out.
Hopefully that's the first and the last one climbing..

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