Botia striata questions AKA zebra

[billingsz89]

I have set up a tank for these guys and just finished the cycle I'm still doing water changes to get the nitrates down to safe levels. I have a few questions.

I have a 30" x 18" x 12" 29 gallon fish tank I have a sand base with a sloped incline made of 3" to 1" smooth river rocks. I imbedded caves made out of PVC pipe snaking through the rocks so they have places to explore. I also have a piece of driftwood that splits making a natural cave the whole design is set up for botia loaches and my favorite is the Botia striata.

how many do you think would be the most I should put in this tank? My LFS recommended 1 but I would rather not get any than put one by himself. I plan to do 5 gallon water changes 2-3 times a week or as water parameters require.

I also read that they should be kept in mature tanks. Is this because of less stable water parameters since they are sensitive to that? I am very attentive to my water chemistry and my tap water is perfect for them 6.6ph 4dgh and 4Dkh 0 nitrates.

[Diana]

I would see no problem at all with half a dozen Botia striata and a dozen or so schooling fish about the size of Rasboras for the upper area. Perhaps half a dozen Otocinclus for algae.

The fish store people do not understand the fishless cycle. If you did a good fishless cycle (sounds like you did) then all sorts of microorganisms have grown along with the nitrifying organisms. While it is still somewhat young, your tank is mature enough for these fish.
By doing the fishless cycle you have grown enough microorganisms (especially the nitrifying species) to add all these fish at the same time.

Are there plants?

[billingsz89]

Yeah there are 7 bunches of pygmy chain sword a small bunch of rotala indica that I plan to spread as it grows tall. I also have 1 anubius nana I think I am going to get some flame moss or java moss to attach to the driftwood and maybe two or three more anubius nana I want to make it look like a bush growing in front of my driftwood. lastly here soon as garden stores start to ramp up I want to buy some dwarf water lettuce or amazon frogbit to eat up some of the nitrates.

I did do a fishless cycle that is done but I am waiting a bit longer just to be sure. I add 2-3ppm ammonia and it takes about 14-20 hours to fully oxidize it to nitrates. I also have a boat load on pest snails from the plants with eggs all over the place (about 25 grown ones and maybe 100+ mini babies about the size of a grain of salt or smaller). The loaches are going to love it. Will they eat the eggs or just the snails?


My tentative stocking plan is:
8 zebra danio (maybe longfin)
8 otos
5-6 zebra loaches
cost of $60-$70

My other option was
9 zebra danios
9 otos
9 dwarf chain loaches (so expensive though $22 at my lfs)
cost of ~$250

[NancyD]

My striatas never got beyond 3 inches at most for the biggest females. I think 5 or6 would be ok &, like Diana suggested, 6 or maybe 8 rasboras. But I'd skip the otos...that's heavier stocking than I like. I kept both rasbora borapentensis (red tailed rasboras) & T. espei (like harlequins only smaller). Any 1 of those would be good in your tank. I vastly prefer them to danios, more colorful, less greedy.

I'm a bit concerned about your PVC pipes trapping detritus. Will you be able to vacuum them?

Rather than smaller water changes, I tend to do 50% once a week. It's less of a commitment long term & it actually removes more nitrate etc than several small 1s. The "mature tank" is not just about cycling but also growing biofilm etc that make for a healthy system.

My striatas were pretty shy except at feeding time but we loved them. Our 6, 2F & 4M, divided themselves into 2 groups of 1 F & 2M. Each group lived with a female dominated sidthimunki group with 3 or 4 males at each end of a 4ft tank. There were more hiding places than loach groups but that's how they chose to live for 6+ years together...until we had to move. Sids are also a great choice instead, 8 or 9, but yeah, expensive.

Oh, & we love pics...

[billingsz89]

Sorry if the image doesn't work first try on this forum. I have added a white window film to it since this picture but not much else.

I do have a pvc elbow pointing up that has a rock over it I can vac down in the caves or do a reverse siphon and push water down into it to press the stuff out. There are two openings one just between the middle most pygmy chain swords, and one back near the back of the glass just behind and the PVC runs all the way back to the glass in the back corner. All the rocks on top of the cave openings are siliconed down to the PVC so they don't fall. I also have eco-complete gravel packed into the river rocks so the sneaky loches won't be able to get stuck between them and to help the plants grow. What do you think?

[billingsz89]

Oh forgot to respond about the rasboras. I don't like the look of most I have seen. I originally wanted guppies but with having such soft tap water I figured it would shorten their lives. I was looking for a semi small soft water species that would provide movement in the tank. I don't particularly need a schooling fish and I liked the guppies for the multiple colors. I love the Otos also not just for cleaning they are vieing with the loaches as one of the fish I am most interested in. The filtration I have should be able to handle the bio-load especially with plants added in.

How about this for stocking:
8 danios
6 Otos
5 zebra loaches

[NancyD]

I like it! But your rocks take up a lot of your loachy bottom tank space. You might think of 6-maybe 8 sidthimunkis rather than striatas. Just my opinion...

[Loachloach]

I plan to do 5 gallon water changes 2-3 times a week or as water parameters require.

As Nancy said, one 50% water change will be tenfold more beneficial than several small ones. I also think the stones are taking the space for bottom feeders. I'd flatten out that slope by quite a bit so the loaches can actually land in there on top. I think the way it is now they'll avoid it and get crammed in the other corner. Detritus will inevitably settle in there big time also, in a matter of a week or two...Ottos on another hand may do well as they'll explore the stones once some algae settles in.

Having said that, ottos in my opinion are not suitable for small tanks long term. I had mine in a 100G tank and they flew around like rockets, played in the flow, etc.. They lived for many years until the tank leaked and I had to move them to a small tank. They didn't last long after that. Maybe they were old but I doubt it. I think the small quarters don't provide that much surface area for them to feed. They can be really hard to get to feed anything but algae. Plus they're quite stationary in small tanks. I know people keep them in such tanks but I also know they don't last as long a mine did in most cases. Mine were about 5 years old at the time they died one by one in the small tank within months of being moved....I love them but unless I have a big suitable tank for them again, I won't get them again.

However, if you get a good group of them, they should overcome their shyness and start feeding normal fish food as long as they're not stressed by other fish, which they may be. Zebra danios and loaches could be quite the disturbance for them as they would be too boisterous and the ottos will never get to food... It's trial and error though and each tank is individual.

Good luck. It's a nice little tank. The idea of floating plants is also great and I am glad to see you've cycled it prior and taken all the right steps to have happy and healthy fish in there.

[Bas Pels]

With regard to the amount of fishes, I do agree that 8 Brachydanio rerio and 8 Botia striata will not be a problem.

However, looking atthe picture of the tank, I wonder why you have a `look through` tank. Were the back window and the side windows black, the tank would be a lot more quiet (nicer to look at, to me) but more importantly, the fishes would feel a lot saver.

This can easily be done by slicking black paper, or painted plywood, to the tank. Dark brown would do the trick as well - basically any dark color, but red, purple and blue might bore you

I myself have all but one of my tanks painted black on three sides - somehow I forgot to paint the back of the last one. I use a sheet of black painted plywood on that one.

[billingsz89]

I took some of the advice and made some changes to the tank I removed a bunch of rocks. I can't take much more out without exposing the pvc. I'm actually much happier with the look. Thank you for the advice!

[Loachloach]

Nice, I think that's way better

[NancyD]

Yes, it looks better, but almost half the tank floor is still rocks. I think I'd try 7 or 8 each sidthimunki (or 4 or 5 striatas) & danios starting with the sturdy danios.

Also, is that an anubias by the wood? It looks like it may be planted too deep. The rhizome (sideways stem that both leaves & roots grow from) needs to be a bit above the substrate. You can also attach it to the wood or rocks with thread or super glue gel.

I would wait a long while to add otos, several months at least, if you add them at all. Both danios & either loach species are pretty active & may intimidate the otos. Otos especially need a "mature" tank. They often are starved for weeks & may not recover from that. Try to see that they are eating something well before you buy.

[billingsz89]

It is an anubias Nana and there are roots that I have tied into the wood at the base of the wood. I put a rock underneath it just today so when I pour water in it doesn't get barried thanks for the advice.

I do have a question about food for the loaches. I am very interested in providing a balanced diet for them.

I have:
tetra sinking algea wafers.
frozen blood worms and brine shrimp.
Omega one flakes for color.
Betta pellets
I also plan to feed blanched veggies.

I plan to order food but I want to get a good stock of different food for the fish. I need suggestions that would fit my stock and I want to feed the high quality stuff. Price really isn't a barrier but I don't want to feed live food aka buying snails. I have been looking for a good artical on fish food but I haven't found anything very specific on loaches. A link to an article or your own personal experience would be amazing.

I am actually leaning toward the sidthimunkis for stocking. I was thinking of getting 4 and the danios(maybe lambchop rasboras) letting that settle for a month or two(and the bank account rebuild). Then go get 2-4 more sidthimunkis and maybe otos. There will be some time between now and then to figure it out test my water and figure out if the bioload is good. I am not apposed to doing 50% water changes twice a week.

Would it help if I added more sand to reduce the highth difference between the rocks and the sand? I can't remove many more rocks but I could add more sand.

The last question I had is should I get a low volume power head for the tank? Would it be of benefit to the stock I plan?

[Loachloach]

Personally, I would not put any more sand. The thinner the layer, the better.

Food wise, you don't need thousands of brands. You need to buy one or two of the best brands. You can buy more than one formula and size pellets from them to suit all fish. At the moment the best is New Life Spectrum and Northfin food and almost nothing else can rival them. These foods provide the variety fish need. In the old days there was no quality fish food, hence variety of different foods was considered the best diet. Now there are many, however, several bad brands does not make a varied diet as one is as bad as the other. Reading the label is essential before committing your fish to anything long term.
Personally, I have had great experience with New Life Spectrum and 95% of the food my fish get is that. I have fish aged from 6-8 years which were fed NLS exclusively for the last 7 years, since 2011. Occasionally I've tried a couple of other foods just out of curiosity rather than anything else. I feed frozen occasionally but not as often as most people do probably.

I know we seem to criticise a lot about what you're trying to get as stock. But why danios I wonder? They like cooler water. They are fast and prefer longer more spacious tanks, etc...I think you may be happier with some smaller fish instead but it's just a personal opinion.

50% water change twice a week would be a great schedule if you manage to stick to it over the years. If you do, you won't regret it.

[NancyD]

I agree with Loachloach in many ways. You don't need more sand or a powerhead. I use 2 filters on almost all tanks. They provide enough flow & can be cleaned alternately without disrupting the beneficial bacteria too much.

You want a good couple foods as a staple diet, frozen foods are occasional treats. Algae wafers & veggies were not favorites of either sids or striatas, but if you gets otos they may like them. Read the food labels, you want to see fish, shrimp, krill etc in the first 3 ingredients, not wheat, soy, corn etc although some as a lesser part is ok as a binder. Most algae wafers really have very little algae, again, read the labels! Even companies that sell good foods often sell less good too or they're all the same with different names. NLS is pretty good, as is Omega 1 Super Color flakes. Ken's earthworm flakes & pellets were favorites too. I would also warn against feeding tubifex worms in any form & freeze dried foods too, just my opinion & experience.

Start with 8 rasboras (my choice) or danios in a cycled tank (look up fishless nitrogen cycling). Then add loaches after a month or so, if all is well. Be prepared to do daily testing & water changes as needed. I'd get 6 or 8 sids all at once. Reject any that look skinny. Each time you add new fish you risk disease or parasites. If money is tight save up instead of adding a few at a time. There will be less territorial disputes too, nobody like the new guys You may do well to treat them early on for internal parasites with flubendazole or Levamisole, I do & Loachloach does too.

Otos, if you decide to try them, need a very well aged tank. Make sure that they are eating & pooping well & don't have sunken stomachs. They are often starved for weeks (or more) & may not recognize prepared foods. Buy ones that have been at lfs for at least a week.