Does anyone here per chance has a working strategy for this?
(The article on Loaches.Com basically says "wait and it may happen"; what I would very much like to do is to see if one can develop a repeatable routine. One part of the reason is that I would very much like to have more of one particular khuli here; but I'm also curious about the inheritance of patterns and having a way of knowning what is a variation, and what may be another species.)
I've been collecting info and very slowly adding to my understanding for a while and would like to start experimenting some time in spring, so any additional pointers/hints/ideas would be much appreciated.
My main asset acquired so far is the positive id of two females and tentative sexing of a few more khulis....
(Admission: I find khulis to be the real loaches, everyone else is just a weak imitation...)
Khuli Breeding
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Graeme Robson
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No strategy, I'm afraid. Just mature specimens and tank set-up. You could be waiting a good few years.
Personally, in the past i've tried many methods but none can be placed as the trigger of the spawning. Just let them be, is the best advice.
Simulating the raining season.
Fouling the tank with very slow moment of water.
Heavy "mulm" on the base.
Packed in Moss under some wood.
Plenty water changes.
Putting them in a tank with plenty "pheromones" from other breeding fish.
Protein based feeding methods.
But what does stick out in my mind is that the "males" are too damm fussy and lazy! (in my case). With a ratio of 3 males and 1 female should produce more chances of spawning.
Personally, in the past i've tried many methods but none can be placed as the trigger of the spawning. Just let them be, is the best advice.
Simulating the raining season.
Fouling the tank with very slow moment of water.
Heavy "mulm" on the base.
Packed in Moss under some wood.
Plenty water changes.
Putting them in a tank with plenty "pheromones" from other breeding fish.
Protein based feeding methods.
But what does stick out in my mind is that the "males" are too damm fussy and lazy! (in my case). With a ratio of 3 males and 1 female should produce more chances of spawning.
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mamaschild
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Thank you! I'll tell Albert you said this.mamaschild wrote:He's beautiful
(Actually he is even better than the picture shows: the unpainted segments are now gray at all, they are of the "meat color". The face does indeed have a bit of melanin.)
Uhu. And the hope is that some experienced mind(s) here will find a solution. The obvious reward is implied.I can see why you want to breed him.
Another pic of Albert is here; this is when he just joined us back in August, together with a couple of normal Myers. The fact that he was smaller is one good thing.
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Graeme Robson
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Ahhh! Right! I see now. 
You probably know what I'm going to suggest next.
A long shot would be for you to hopefully breed your albino pangio with other normal P. myersi's, and the offspring should be of both genes. Do you have any "gravid" females around? I would imagine the female may take favor in your albino specimen when breeding.
Good luck!
You probably know what I'm going to suggest next. A long shot would be for you to hopefully breed your albino pangio with other normal P. myersi's, and the offspring should be of both genes. Do you have any "gravid" females around? I would imagine the female may take favor in your albino specimen when breeding.
Good luck!
He is actually not an albino, but what is called amelanistic (or hypomelanistic, I kind of prefer the first term.). The difference is the eye color, his are black, not red.
Still, the same logic applies: it is a recessive gene (at least in reptiles, so must be in fish too), so it the 3rd generation that may work.
I know it is a very long shot.
On gravid females: I, unfortunately, do not have a really-gravid one. I have one that is green-tinted but without obvious body distortions; this would mean, I guess, some but not many eggs. The other one I picked up one week ago and it had the same green tint at the store, but lost it now (I don't know if it was even suitable: it is 3in, but has a male body shape and I probably need to let it fatten for 3 months). I'm very glad it survived (most khulis at the store quickly died there, and so did the only other survivor whom I brought home), so I have a 2nd khuli I'm certain of the sex.
One of the things I wanted to check upon is this guess:
Khulis simply would not become very gravid if kept in large groups.
The reason I think so is that someone else I talked to has only two khulis and they are both gravid (one very, one some) after a year of isolation from males in a community tank. (I wish I could have them
)
I suspect that what is going on is that khulis do spawn a bit all the time, we simply don't see this, and the babies, if any hatch, get quickly eaten. No egg accumulation is possible with males around.
And the reason the new female lost the tint (eggs?) may be that I put it with two hyperactive young males---or it may be the stress of acclimating and unfortunately I just don't know. Anyhow, if it could make eggs once, it should be able to do it again.
Does this make sense to you?
If this is the case, the strategy seems obvious.
Probably this does not matter, it is not like women should be allowed to choose.
I was trying to find him a roommate at least (a khuli with weak color), and even this did not work well: two quickly died (no big surprise --- see the loaches.com entry on weak coloration dieout), and one went into the pattern morphing to come out really strange looking. (You know that khuli patterns may change?). And a couple more recovered full color (which is better than dying, of course, but does not solve the problem)
Still, the same logic applies: it is a recessive gene (at least in reptiles, so must be in fish too), so it the 3rd generation that may work.
I know it is a very long shot.
On gravid females: I, unfortunately, do not have a really-gravid one. I have one that is green-tinted but without obvious body distortions; this would mean, I guess, some but not many eggs. The other one I picked up one week ago and it had the same green tint at the store, but lost it now (I don't know if it was even suitable: it is 3in, but has a male body shape and I probably need to let it fatten for 3 months). I'm very glad it survived (most khulis at the store quickly died there, and so did the only other survivor whom I brought home), so I have a 2nd khuli I'm certain of the sex.
One of the things I wanted to check upon is this guess:
Khulis simply would not become very gravid if kept in large groups.
The reason I think so is that someone else I talked to has only two khulis and they are both gravid (one very, one some) after a year of isolation from males in a community tank. (I wish I could have them
)I suspect that what is going on is that khulis do spawn a bit all the time, we simply don't see this, and the babies, if any hatch, get quickly eaten. No egg accumulation is possible with males around.
And the reason the new female lost the tint (eggs?) may be that I put it with two hyperactive young males---or it may be the stress of acclimating and unfortunately I just don't know. Anyhow, if it could make eggs once, it should be able to do it again.
Does this make sense to you?
If this is the case, the strategy seems obvious.
Not so sure, he is kind of a loner, and I know that some species hate albinos (tiger barbs and humans).I would imagine the female may take favor in your albino specimen when breeding.
Probably this does not matter, it is not like women should be allowed to choose.
I was trying to find him a roommate at least (a khuli with weak color), and even this did not work well: two quickly died (no big surprise --- see the loaches.com entry on weak coloration dieout), and one went into the pattern morphing to come out really strange looking. (You know that khuli patterns may change?). And a couple more recovered full color (which is better than dying, of course, but does not solve the problem)
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Graeme Robson
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Yes indeed not a "albino" Pangio. I thought i saw a reddish tint in your picture but it must of been with the picture being a little out of focus.mikev wrote:He is actually not an albino, but what is called amelanistic (or hypomelanistic, I kind of prefer the first term.). The difference is the eye color, his are black, not red.
Still, the same logic applies: it is a recessive gene (at least in reptiles, so must be in fish too), so it the 3rd generation that may work.
Amelanistic specimens are not the route we want to go down (selected breeding or melanin deficiency?) *sigh* Unfortunately i do keep two of them.
Huh? You approve of complete melanin deficiency and disapprove of nearly complete (in fact, complete as far as the skin goes)?Graeme Robson wrote: Amelanistic specimens are not the route we want to go down (selected breeding or melanin deficiency?)
I fail to understand the logic.
I guess they are not as rare as I thought. Needless to say, I'm very envious too....
A very nice fellow on your end; again a male, I think. How about the other one?
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