Angelicus botia??? and substrate question

[LUVaLOACH]

Well, still dealing with my nitrite spike but gonna get throught it.

I have seen fish at the LFS labeled angelicus botia and I really love them. Is anyone familiar what the real name of this fish is. It looks similar so several in the listed PICS. I would love to get some but as I have learned, extensive reasearch is necessary to providing the right environment for my fish.

Also, I am wondering what type of substrate to get? If you get sand, how do you properly syphon it without literally sucking it up? I want to thank everyone again for all your help...I am learning every day. This site is so helpful as I am in TN and have had a hard time finding anyone in the LFS that know what the heck they are talking about. I want an Emma here! LOL!

Thanks,
Kris

[shari2]

Hi Kris,

The current scientific name of the fish I think you're describing is Botia kubotai. HERE is the link to the species page.

As for sucking up the sand substrate? You don't actually have to dig into it as you do with gravel. If you do, you're right, you end up sucking sand right up the vacuum. Most of the detritus will settle on top of the sand and if you slowly move the vac over the surface it will go up the tube without taking the sand with it. It is wise to occasionally stir the sand with your fingers now and then and vac again afterwards, but not all the time, and not all the substrate at once. Also, you don't want to disturb the sand much around plant roots. But it is very easy to keep planted sand tanks clean once you get used to it.

[YellowFinned]

I've got fine gravel in my tank with Kubotais, and a good bit of hard bogwood. They hang out in the bogwood.

[LUVaLOACH]

Hi Kris,

The current scientific name of the fish I think you're describing is Botia kubotai. HERE is the link to the species page.

As for sucking up the sand substrate? You don't actually have to dig into it as you do with gravel. If you do, you're right, you end up sucking sand right up the vacuum. Most of the detritus will settle on top of the sand and if you slowly move the vac over the surface it will go up the tube without taking the sand with it. It is wise to occasionally stir the sand with your fingers now and then and vac again afterwards, but not all the time, and not all the substrate at once. Also, you don't want to disturb the sand much around plant roots. But it is very easy to keep planted sand tanks clean once you get used to it.

That's it...I saw them the other day and just love them. I am just wondering if they would get along well with my dojo's. This may seem like a crazy question but I have just gotten into the loaches and my substrate in the tank I would like to keep them, as well as the dojo's, is much to heavy and coarse, is it possilbe to change the substrate without recycling the tank or would this be too difficult?

Thanks for you help,
Kris

[shari2]

Compare the info from the species index on M. anguillicaudatus and M. mizolepis with the profile I'd linked above on B. kubotai.

Take special note of the water temperature parameters and you may see that keeping them together would mean one or the other (or both if you try to find a middle ground) would be uncomfortable.

When you are putting fish together in a tank it's best to try to find fish that will thrive in the environment your tank has. Matching fish that share pH, temp, water movement preferences, and general habitat preferences like rocks, or plants, or black water, is most likely to give you less problems and your fish a happier home.

[Martin Thoene]

Everything Shari said, plus.....

Substrate changing. To avoid removing a large number of beneficial bacteria in an established tank you can change the substrate in sections. I can't pretend this is easy and you will end up with lots of detritus blowing around in the water for a bit, but it is possible.

Easiest way is to do it in 1/3rds. Divide off one-third of the substrate with a piece of stiff plastic cut to fit the width of the aquarium. remove plants and decor from that side, then scoop out the old substrate.

Then replace with sand if that's what you are changing to. This must be washed meticulously as it can be very mucky depending on source. Sands sold in aquarium shops tend to be pre-cleaned, but still need a few rinses. Playpit sand from a DIY centre or hardware store will need more cleaning than you can imagine and probably still cloud the water for a bit.
Replace plants and decor in that third.

Leave the tank for a week or so and then repeat with the next third, and so on.

Martin.

[LUVaLOACH]

Compare the info from the species index on M. anguillicaudatus and M. mizolepis with the profile I'd linked above on B. kubotai.

Take special note of the water temperature parameters and you may see that keeping them together would mean one or the other (or both if you try to find a middle ground) would be uncomfortable.

When you are putting fish together in a tank it's best to try to find fish that will thrive in the environment your tank has. Matching fish that share pH, temp, water movement preferences, and general habitat preferences like rocks, or plants, or black water, is most likely to give you less problems and your fish a happier home.

Ok, did the comparison and they are not a match. Seems dojo's like it cold. I was not aware of just how cold. Mine are in 67 degree now and that is even too high with leaves me wondering if there are any other loaches that will thrive with them. I guess that's how they earned their name. It is very unusual to me to find a fish that thrives in this temp of water but I am new to fish in general and loaches especially. I may post and see if anyone has any suggestion or just do my research.

Thanks again and I would love to hear your thoughts on changing out that substrate.

Kris

[LUVaLOACH]

Everything Shari said, plus.....

Substrate changing. To avoid removing a large number of beneficial bacteria in an established tank you can change the substrate in sections. I can't pretend this is easy and you will end up with lots of detritus blowing around in the water for a bit, but it is possible.

Easiest way is to do it in 1/3rds. Divide off one-third of the substrate with a piece of stiff plastic cut to fit the width of the aquarium. remove plants and decor from that side, then scoop out the old substrate.

Then replace with sand if that's what you are changing to. This must be washed meticulously as it can be very mucky depending on source. Sands sold in aquarium shops tend to be pre-cleaned, but still need a few rinses. Playpit sand from a DIY cetre or hardware store will need more cleaning than you can imagine and probably still cloud the water for a bit.
Replace plants and decor in that third.

Leave the tank for a week or so and then repeat with the next third, and so on.

Martin.

OK, that is what I will do. I have to change the substrate before I put these guys in there. I am still going to have to do some research on dojo tankmates.

I was so impressed with your pictures and thanks for sharing, gives me something to strive for. If I can get them all healthy and get through this nitrite spike as I had to divide my one 20 into 2 20 's and now am cycling with fish. BTW, my angel with the hole in his side is healing so well with Melafix. So I am on my way.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge...I still want an Emma here in TN! LOL!

Have a great day,
Kris

[shari2]

It has been done the way Martin suggested. I've done it using large pieces of slate to hold back the different sections. Took me over a month... but at least it didn't seem to bug the fish too much overall.

I use pool filter sand, the kind that pool shops sell for use in sand filters. Still takes a LOT of rinsing, but seems to clear up in the tank fairly quickly. It's also not as fine grained as some play sand, sinks nicely, and is a rounded kind of sand grain.

I guess you need to decide whether you want to set up the 55 as a cold water or tropical tank first, and go from there. That will determine what fish, type of plants, etc. will work best together.

That is the funnest part of the whole deal for me. Designing the tank.
The fish are fun, too, but I really enjoy the creating the environment part. Take your time, consider your options, and remember that you will want it to last for a while, so be happy with it.

[Mike Ophir]

Hi there.

What is commonly sold as Angelicus Botia is in reality Botia kubotai. Although generally peaceful, this is a very active Botia that will jump out of the aquarium in the absence of a tight cover, to be kept at all times. They are also known to burrow in the substrate. As a result, do not under any circumstances buy substrate that has sharp or pointy edges that may cause harm to the fish.

They prefer to be kept in groups of 5 or more and as they age tend to be more reclusive, just like most members of the Botia genus.

Their identity as a distinct species has come into question several times due to a suspicision that they may be a variation of B. histrionica. So far no conclusive evidence has been found either way.

Provide this species with blood worms, if not every day, then every other day. Sinking tablets, vegetables and flakes are also readily taken.

Keep this fish with community fish such as other Botias from the Indian subcontinent such as Botia striata, Botia dario, Botia histrionica.

Mike

[shari2]

Hey there Mike!
Nice to hear from you.

[lakerat37]

Kris, Have you ever heard of MTS?



It happened to me!!!


Ken

[LUVaLOACH]

Kris, Have you ever heard of MTS?

:lol: :lol:

It happened to me!!!


Ken

LOL, yes, I have heard of it and I am on tank restriction at this very moment! LOL!!! Glad to know I am not alone.

Kris

[AwesomeCoolstein]

I have a small group of Botia kubotai, and they are GREAT fish, very interesting coloring and behaviors. They LOVE to jam themselves in any crack or space they can find. I sometimes get very worried about burrying them. My tank decor has become many round river rocks stacked together, they love hiding in the voids of the rocks.

I have a sand substrate in another tank, as a solution to the sucking up sand problem I just suck up the sand. I then rinse it in the bucket and siphon it back in the tank with the new water.


By the way what do people call Botia kubotai, I go for kubota, after the tractor company, but I'm sure I'm the only one

[Martin Thoene]

I believe that it is koo-bow-tie. That's what I say anyhow.

And (discussed many times) it's bow-tee-ah.

Martin.