help - new loach died unexpectedly

[trinity]

Hello,

I'm new to the forum and I am hoping to make sure any new loach I get fairs better than my most recent one. It died in the first 48 hours.

I have a 50 gallon aquarium that has been running a total of 9 years. The established fish are six skirted tetras (around 5 years old), a weather loach (age 7 or so), and a long nose loach (age 3 or 4). About six months ago, I had a pleco that had grown to be 18 inches long that I gave to a sanctuary with a 1,000 gallon heated pond.

So, wanting to add a splash of color, I got some new fish on Sunday. I floated the bags for 20 minutes and then released, a young loach, listed as angelicus botia, a rubbernose pleco, and 8 red wag platti. I got them all from PetSmart.

Within the first 24 hours, one platti had died, and today the angelicus loach died. Before this morning, it was highly active and showed no signs of anything wrong. The other fish seem to be fine. I haven't had a fish die of anything other than old age in a really long time. (Actually, the last time was a fish that had gotten fatally stuck in a decoration and was unable to get free. We noticed too late. We threw out the decoration and have been super careful since. And that was like eight years ago.)

The water tests as no ammonia, with a PH of 7.0 to 6.8, the temp is 76 to 78, and light is on six hours a day because its winter. I have two established Emperor 280s running on the setup and the replacable filters are only a few days old. I added Stress Zyme for the new fish.

What happened to my new fish?! Any ideas? The only website I found said blood poisoning would kill a fish in the first 24 hours, but the bodies showed no signed of disease or discoloration or bloating or anything odd really.

What can I do to prevent this from occuring again since I would like to have PetSmart replace them?

Thanks for any replies!
Lisa

[TammyLiz]

When you get your replacements, you should not only adjust temperature slowly for them, but also other parameters. Float them when you get home, then pour them in a clean bucket or something (do you have one you use when you clean the tank?) and slowly add tank water over a period of time until they are in mostly tank water. I usually just pour a little in every once in a while, but you can also get some airline tubing, create a siphon and tie a knot in the tubing until it is just dripping into the bucket and leave it alone. How fast you do it depends on how far different the stores water is from your own.

The only other thing I notice is you said the replaceable filters are only a few days old. Did you replace them all at once right before you got the new fish? Its not really the best time to do it since you're adding to the waste output of the tank right after you remove beneficial bacteria with the filters. There might have been a spike in ammonia or nitrite that you didn't detect, occuring before or after you tested, that caused extra stress to fish that may have been weak in the first place.

Other than that, it might have been the fish were already weak.

If you are going to get another "angelicus loach" (Botia kubotai) you might consider getting a group instead. They are social. I'd link you to the species description but it appears to be down for now.

[brett_fishman]

hello, welcome to LOL!!

did you properly acclimize your new fish, or did you just float them?

if you just float the bag, all you are doing it acclimizing the fish to the tank temerature...if you mix the water, they will properly acclimize to your water parameters..

this is the procedure i use:
1. float bag for 20 minutes
2. open bag, make it so it floats on surface
3. pour a cup of tank water into the bag
4. wait 10 minutes
5. pour another cup of tank water into the bag
6. wait another 10 minutes
7. NET the fish out of the bag and GENTLEY release them into the tank..let them swim out of the net..

if you do this, you are guarenteed that your new fish are properly acclimized to their new tank

NEVER empty the bag water into your tank, there are chances that the water from petsmart or your LFS has disease in it, so its better to net the fish out..

-brett.

[brett_fishman]

TammyLiz,
HERE is the Botia Kubotai (angelicus loach) Profile.

-brett.

[Mark in Vancouver]

You might even go back to the place where you bought the fish and ask to take a sample of their water. Compare pH, GH, ammonia, and so on. If you don't have all the test kits, try taking your store sample (and a sample of your own tank water) to a local independent store and ask them to do it.

It does sound like chemical shock, but you need to know what parameters are most out of whack before you can buy more of their fish. While Brett's idea about acclimatization are good in general, you should also be quarantining any new fish before adding them to the community tank. For about $30, you can set up a plain, unlit q-tank. Add a little bit of water from your community tank each time you do a water change. Adjusting the water parameters in a small (10G) tank is easier than in your community tank.

This also prevents (or makes treatment easier in cases of) Ich and other contaminants from entering your mature tank system.

Welcome to LOL, Trinity. We love the loaches. One final thought is that you should be looking at a small group of B. kubotai (angelicus) rather than one at a time. They require their own company to do well in any kind of tank. Buy three or more next time, and quarantine them. You will thank yourself!

[trinity]

I floated the bag and then added water from the tank and waited another 10 minutes and then released them. I dont dump the bag into the tank per se, but I do turn it sideways in the water and let them swim out. The pull the bag up and water one of my plants with the bag contents.

When I was at the store, they had only one angelicus so thats why I only bought one. When I returned to get him replaced, I intended to buy 3, but they didnt have any. So I bought my weather loach a friend.

I have two Emperor 280s running on the tank. I changed the pull out filters, leaving the secondary filter and bio-wheel in place. Perhaps this might cause a spike, but I change them every two or three weeks anyway.

The new weather loach is a bit kooky, but other than his odd behavior doing just fine. He hangs out with the other weather loach and tends to be hanging out in the plants at the front and looking out. He hid the first couple days, but I guess he's getting used to us. His odd behavior is that he lies sideways on the gravel or even upside down and sometimes even drapes himself so he's hanging in the plants. At first I panicked thinking, oh my gosh he struggling / dying! But you go to check on him and he's right as rain, swims off and hides right side up. I panicked at first and changed 50% of the water thinking maybe it was some chemical thing that I'm not aware of and cant test for. Now I'm beginning to think its just a bit kooky. I've had my older weather loach for like 8 years and never have I seen him do such things. We're thinking he's acting odd because he doesnt like the substrate, so we're going to change it.

[mikev]

I floated the bag and then added water from the tank and waited another 10 minutes and then released them.

10 minutes is usually insufficient. 40min-1hour, water changes spaced every 10mins, and if the water parameters are very different, even this may not be enough. I do 1hour+, sometimes even 2 hours, when I know that water is quite different.

A story from a lfs here: their store system pH collapsed down to 5, and they discovered the problem by learning that every fish they sold died...including those properly acclimated (or so the customers thought).

hth

[cybermeez]

The Drs. Foster & Smith site has a good, thorough article on acclimating new fish.

[LUVaLOACH]

I floated the bag and then added water from the tank and waited another 10 minutes and then released them. I dont dump the bag into the tank per se, but I do turn it sideways in the water and let them swim out. The pull the bag up and water one of my plants with the bag contents.

When I was at the store, they had only one angelicus so thats why I only bought one. When I returned to get him replaced, I intended to buy 3, but they didnt have any. So I bought my weather loach a friend.

I have two Emperor 280s running on the tank. I changed the pull out filters, leaving the secondary filter and bio-wheel in place. Perhaps this might cause a spike, but I change them every two or three weeks anyway.

The new weather loach is a bit kooky, but other than his odd behavior doing just fine. He hangs out with the other weather loach and tends to be hanging out in the plants at the front and looking out. He hid the first couple days, but I guess he's getting used to us. His odd behavior is that he lies sideways on the gravel or even upside down and sometimes even drapes himself so he's hanging in the plants. At first I panicked thinking, oh my gosh he struggling / dying! But you go to check on him and he's right as rain, swims off and hides right side up. I panicked at first and changed 50% of the water thinking maybe it was some chemical thing that I'm not aware of and cant test for. Now I'm beginning to think its just a bit kooky. I've had my older weather loach for like 8 years and never have I seen him do such things. We're thinking he's acting odd because he doesnt like the substrate, so we're going to change it.

First of all, sorry for your losses. At least PetSmart will replace them. I think you might have just gotten some sick or stressed fish, it might not necessarily have been anything you did. This happened to me a month or so ago when I got a weather loach from petsmart and found him dead the next day and I probably over-acclimated him, lol...if you knew all the issues I have had with my tanks you would get it, hehe!

Anyway, I would do exactly what Brett said as far as acclimating them, that is how I do it, and I would never let the store water in contact with mine.

Obviously you don't have a Quarantine tank and neither do I so we both are kinda putting ourselves and our fish out there when we take the risk of not QTing all new fish. It's a gamble and can be an expensive one if the new fish introduces a disease to your tank.

I found a 10 gal from a freind and I am gonna set it up and not add one more fish until the QT is up and running. IMHO, I would check into getting something set up for your own use.

As for the angelicus, they are awesome fish. I currently have 2 but intend to get more as soon as the QT is cycled. They are so playful and fun to watch, you will love this fish. They are normally a $20.00 fish but they are on sale at the PetSmart where I live for the next month for $9.99, hurry and cycle QT!

I hope you have better luck next time, and do get some angelicus, I know the petsmart here get their fish on Wed. I would check and see when they get their fish.

Again Good Luck and Welcome!

Kris

[YellowFinned]

I floated the bag and then added water from the tank

The Drs. Foster & Smith site has a good, thorough article on acclimating new fish.

I totally disagree with this method of mixing water with the bag. When the bag is sealed, the carbon dioxide expelled by the fish reduces the PH and inhibits the effect of ammonia that has built up in the bag. As soon as you open the bag, the whole chemistry changes, and it can instantly become toxic. My method is to float the bag for temperature, and then open the bag into a net and discard completely the bag water.

[LUVaLOACH]

I floated the bag and then added water from the tank

The Drs. Foster & Smith site has a good, thorough article on acclimating new fish.

I totally disagree with this method of mixing water with the bag. When the bag is sealed, the carbon dioxide expelled by the fish reduces the PH and inhibits the effect of ammonia that has built up in the bag. As soon as you open the bag, the whole chemistry changes, and it can instantly become toxic. My method is to float the bag for temperature, and then open the bag into a net and discard completely the bag water.

Yellowfin,

I have never sealed the bag while adding small amounts of water from my tank. I have left the bag floating open (sometimes takes some rigging) and added small amounts of water from the new tank.

So you just acclimate the fish to the temp of your tank not the new water conditions? Just curious.

Kris

[mikev]

I floated the bag and then added water from the tank

The Drs. Foster & Smith site has a good, thorough article on acclimating new fish.

I totally disagree with this method of mixing water with the bag. When the bag is sealed, the carbon dioxide expelled by the fish reduces the PH and inhibits the effect of ammonia that has built up in the bag.

If one buys fish from a local store, the ammonia buildup is negligible and their method is just fine.

If the fish is shipped overnight, then yes, you may want to take care of ammonia. A variation here is to use their method, but first add a drop of something like Amquel+ or Prime.

[MTS]

I wouldn't trust PetSmart to name the loach correctly. I noticed their $9.99 sale on what they called a angelicus loach so I came back to this forum to research it. It sure didn't look like the angelicus pictures on this forum.

I also got myself in trouble by buying what PetSmart labeled as an algae eater for 5+ gallon tanks and the clerk said was a Siamese Algae eater. Then, I find out it is a Chinese Algae eater which few would recommend for any tank. If I take it back, they will dispose of it rather than try to resell it so now I feel responsible for it. So far, its been very good and has totally taken care of the algae in a twelve gallon tank without attacking the slime coat on the gourami yet. I'm going to have to play musical fish to come up with a combination that will work with the fish. It may end up in a tank by itself.

Ofcourse, Petsmart was the store that sold me the clown loach to eat the snails in my 55 gal tank. That is going to cost me since I'm now planning for the 6 foot tank.

[helen nightingale]

here petsmart only have labels for some of the fish in the tank, and lots of fish have no labels on any tank in the whole shop. its definately worth checking that yo uknow what you think you are buying first. yo unever know, you might get a bargain

[MTS]

Thank heavens for information on the internet. I really have learned a lot because of my internet connection. It this point, I would recommend that anyone who wants to get into the fish hobby should have internet first.