Moving and Quarantine

[FranM]

I have gotten tons of good, fish life saving advice here, most recently from LoachLoach and Nancy D. Today I’m throwing it out to them and everyone to comment on their experiences and offer advice in regard to my situation.

I will begin moving to a new place this weekend and I have a couple weeks to complete the process (the time is finally here, Nancy and Loach).

I currently have a 55 gallon aquarium setup and these inhabitants will eventually be moved into a 120 gallon. I also want to add more loaches and a large school of some kind of tetra or barb. But I want to quarantine the new fish. It would be easier to use the 120 as the quarantine so I only have to move one batch of fish. I originally planned on moving my current fish into the 120 and using the 55 as the quarantine but then I have to re-bag and move those fish too once the quarantine is over. If I put new fish directly into new tank then I only have the stressful job of catching and moving only once.

For the quarantine I plan to dose with Prazipro then wait a couple weeks, then deworm with Kusuri. Should I do something else as well?

So my big concern is will my current fish be safe if I add them into an established treated tank? I want to do what’s best for my current fish but I also want to decrease my stress level too. Please let me know your experiences and advice. Thanks all.

Fran

[Bas Pels]

While I did and do use quarantaine for new fish, if I move fish from 1 tank to another I don't seem to need it

Moving fishes weakens them, but apparently, in my tanks the conditions are rather similar, and therefore it waekens them a little, if any.

When I moved house, I emptied 1 tank moved it an filled it, emptying another. I did not need any quarantaine either, but I moved only 5 km. That is the water is the same

[FranM]

Bas Pels, I AM planning on adding new fish, so therefore I will need to quarantine.

[Diana]

I also have found that once the fish are established in my tap water (or however I want to treat it) they can be moved from one tank to another with little or no stress.

Quarantine and treatment is usually done in a relatively bare tank so that you can observe the fish quite easily to watch for things like Ich, and monitor their behavior (clamped fins, flashing, or aggression among the fish).

Moving a set up to a new tank includes some loss of beneficial bacteria. You can supplement the bacteria with a product like Dr. Tim's One and Only or other product that includes nitrospira species of bacteria.

Here is how I would handle this:
1) Set up the new tank at the new location. Move as much of the decor as you want from the old tank, but you could use all new material. Plant, and get it fully ready.
2) Begin the fishless cycle, or add as much benficial bacteria as you want. It could be fully cycled in about 24-48 hours if you use a full dose.
3) Move the original fish to the new tank.
4) Take down the old tank, saving all the substrate, decor, filter media etc in a way that keeps the beneficial bacteria alive. Or leave it in its old location, fully set up and running. Just remove enough of the decor that you have really good visibility into the tank.
5) Add the new fish to the old tank within 24-48 hours of removing the original fish. This tank will be fully cycled. Here is the added reason: Any diseases or parasites the original fish had will still be lingering in the old tank. This will expose the new fish to all the microorganisms (good and bad) that the original fish have adapted to. Continue the quarantine procedure. Treating bottom dwelling fish for internal parasites is a good precaution. If there is any possibility of bringing in Ich I would run a UV sterilizer for about 2-3 days. Long enough to kill off any baby Ich that might be in the water from the store. Then turn it off.
6) After all medication is cleared from the water monitor the fish for 1 month. If they are healthy at this point add them to the new tank, adding more beneficial bacteria to the new tank with each addition of the fish.

[NancyD]

I would do like Diana said. Get the new tank ready & move the old fish. Rather than bagging them I'd use buckets with a lid or towels to keep them from jumping. It might take a couple trips since some of your fish a large. Don't forget to test the new water, I know it's not far but a 20 minute drive here can mean 3 or 4 water companies , & maybe more distribution points.

Will you move the 55g to your condo or will it stay at you old place? If it stays it will be harder to monitor the new fish. It's also less expensive to treat in the 55g. & heaven for bid you get something truly nasty like mycobacteria. You don't want any possibility of that in your new tank.

[FranM]

I got it, Diana and Nancy. I will heed your advice on the move.

I have a Fluval FX6 ready to go. I could use some of the filter media from old filter (still keeping sponges in old one) to help establish new filter. In fact, I could add the Matrix I have to new filter (I’d say easily 2 cups worth) and still perform the fishless cycle with new filter. I still have sponges for larger HOB and smaller HOB with sponge and small amount of bio media to leave in 55.

Nancy, 55 is staying at my old house, however my pool is still there and I will be there all summer during the day. Believe me I will be observing fish.

What is still going to be the most difficult for me is catching fish. I love the fish but I have a fear of the floppiness and jumping of them out of water. It’s crazy I know. Crazy. I have a Tupperware pitcher, oval shaped, that I keep for fish use. Going to try to catch them in that after I drop water level. For loaches it’s a must. Will try this with silver dollars, God help me.

We’re getting key today and I’ll be taking test kits over. My fiancé will be washing floors and I’ll be testing water. LOL. HOPING for some water with buffering capability but I seriously doubt it.

All new tank decor is going in 120 gallon. I will strip 55 of gravel during quarantine but will leave plants. I will make a couple trips with fish. I have battery operated airstone to use and I’ll add Prime. How much? Maybe a 3-4 gallon bucket.

Do you think Dr.Tim’s is better than Seachem stability and do you think I need Dr. Tim’s ammonia?

I don’t have UV sterilizer. Should I do a precautionary ich treatment? Will do Prazipro and Kusuri too. Any particular order?

Finally, THANK YOU FOR THE HELP, ladies!! Truly appreciative.

Fran

[Diana]

The product will say right on the label that it contains Nitrospira species of nitrifying bacteria.
Dr Tim is the scientist who identified these as the correct species, the ones that do the work in a cycled tank. They are the ones that turn nitrite into nitrate. There is another group that turns ammonia into nitrite. When you buy a bottle that contains Nitrospira species you are also getting the correct microorganisms that turn ammonia into nitrite.

I have read the label on Stability. It does not encourage me to think it has the right species.
I have followed people who post threads about cycling their new aquarium using Stability. It takes just as long as if they had used nothing.

I have read the label on Dr. Tims One and Only, and on Tetra Safe Start. These 2 contain the right species. Tetra Safe Start says 'Contains patented BioSpira'. Bio Spira is Dr Tim's original product when he was working for another company.
I have used Tetra Safe Start. It works FAST. None of this "... add daily for seven days...and... monitor conditions... and... for ammonia emergency use (a different product)."
Of course you want to monitor conditions, but you sure do not need to keep on adding it. Once the correct species of bacteria get into the tank they attach themselves to all the surfaces and start multiplying. The correct dose takes care of an ammonia emergency. (That is what I used it for)

No, you do not need to buy Dr. Tim's ammonia. Any non-perfumed, non-surfactant ammonia will work to keep the bacteria fed until you get the fish. I would not bother with the ammonia, if you can add a full dose of whichever product you decide on. Simply add the Dr. Tims or the Tetra Safe Start, let it circulate for a few minutes, then add the fish.
If you want to do the fishless cycle using a lower dose or nothing at all to jump start it, then you would use ammonia to feed the bacteria.
Remember that if you use any of these products (live bacteria) you want to turn off UV and not have any medication in the water.
These bacteria are not well protected when in the bottle. Once they land on the surfaces in the tank and filter they develop a biofilm that protects them from low doses of fish medicines, and they are no longer swimming in the water so UV is not a problem. I would give them a few days to attach, so keep the UV off for a few days. I do not know how long it takes for them to develop enough of a biofilm to be safe from fish meds, but I would think that an anti-parasite medicine is less toxic to them than an antibacterial medicine. This is where doing the fishless cycle could help.
Add the beneficial bacteria then feed them with ammonia (your ammonia test should read 3ppm when you add the ammonia) until they form that biofilm. (few days??? a week or two???)

[FranM]

Simply add the Dr. Tims or the Tetra Safe Start, let it circulate for a few minutes, then add the fish.

WHOA! WHOA!

I have to repeat. Add the recommended dosage of either Doc Tim or Safe Start and then immediately add fish???? I’m taking your word on that one, Diana! You mean as soon as fish start making ammonia, the addition of the biospira will start converting it immediately?? So no ammonia or nitrite issues? This is too good to be true!! LOL. I’m in awe.

Then when it’s time to add the new fish just redose with the same stuff? Be then the filter media should have grown more bacteria. Is there a way to have TOO much bacteria that cannot all be fed amply by the fish load?

Oh, and one other thing. 1 Tetra bottle says it takes care of up to 20 gallons. Should I get 7 bottles just to be safe? (For a 120 gallon)

Thank you.

[Diana]

You are right, it does sound too good to be true.
But here is a typical course of how it goes:
Set up new tank with all new everything.
Add Dr. Tims. Let it circulate. (few minutes)
Add fish.
There may be a small blip of ammonia or nitrite in the first 24-48 hours. A very low level. Not a problem for the fish.

A few cautions:
You need to add enough product to handle the waste from as many fish as you are adding.
For example, a bottle that says it is good for a 20 gallon tank really means it is good for an average level of stocking of that size tank. There is no problem with using more of the product.
If you are lightly stocking a tank, then use less. For example, if you are putting 50 gallons worth of fish in a 100 gallon tank, then just use 50 gallons worth (or a bit more) of the product.
Later, when your fish are done with quarantine, add more Dr. Tims to the tank when you add fish. If you are adding about 20 gallons worth of fish, then add 20 gallons worth of Dr. Tims. A tank that is already cycled for a small fish load will have a pretty easy time adding to its population so the additional Dr. Tims does not have to be an exact amount. No harm in adding extra.

The last caution is probably the biggest possible problem.
Sometimes the product is mis-handled between packer and seller. The bacteria in the bottle die.
Then, when you add it to the tank it has done nothing.
Here is how I deal with this:
1) Set up tank, add Dr. Tims. No fish, yet.
2) Add ammonia until the test shows 3ppm.
3) Test the next day. Ammonia should be gone or almost gone (under .25 ppm). There might be a small amount of nitrite (well under 1 ppm)
If the ammonia level is unchanged (still about 3ppm) then the product is dead. Return it to the store.
Get a replacement bottle, and add that. Repeat item 3) testing the next day.
If the ammonia is way down, then the product is alive, and the tank is safe to add fish.

[FranM]

Thank you for the clarification and the test to be certain bacteria is present. I was concerned about that. If the ammonia is low to non existent the next day, there would be no reason to add more ammonia, rather, add the fish, correct?

So in my 55 right now I have four silver dollars, two clowns and two yo-yos. Thinking maybe I should use 4 bottles.

Also thinking I will go with half teaspoon increments to get the ammonia level up since I have no idea how much to start with. Better to go low and add more, right?

Thanks, Diana!!

[Diana]

Yes, if the bacteria take care of the ammonia in 24 hours then the tank is ready for fish.

4 bottles @ "20 gallon" sounds good.

Ammonia comes in different strengths. You might test some in a 5 gallon bucket, then do some math. It might take a LOT of teaspoons to does 120 gallons. If you find out you have weak ammonia (dollar tree kind of stuff) you might end up adding a lot more than a few teaspoons. I think I had to dose about 1/2 cup when I was doing the fishless cycle on my 100 gallon tank.

[FranM]

OH! Ok. I will test it out. Thank you much.

[loachnoob]

Hate to play devils advocate here, but Dr. Tim's failed me. SeaChems Stablity cycled my tank almost instantly (24 hours). Kept up with the recommended dosing and my new tank is rocking. I would not recommend Dr. Tims.

[FranM]

I saw your comment on my other thread that you did not find Dr. Tim’s helpful. My guess could be that the bacteria were D. O. A.

[FranM]

Things are finally coming along!

I used Safestart Plus because that’s all two local Petco/Petsmart had. One treats up to 100 and the other up to 40. I got both, added both in and added almost a quarter cup ammonia. Waited ten min and tested—.50

Added the remainder ammonia—1.

Added almost another quarter cup ammonia—2. ish
Nitrite—0

So either I’m not killing it with ammonia yet to get it to 2. Or maybe the bacteria is good and eating it up before the level goes anywhere. How should I proceed? (I tested again an hour after this post and it’s still 2. ish).

I added six teaspoons of baking soda because the tap water read 0 kh. I have leaned the the nitrification cycle will work more effectively with a kh reading. I don’t have that test kit here now, though, to test tank water. At home for the 55 I used two teaspoons to get the kh to 4. With an 120 I used six teaspoons. I need to go home for that test kit.

Finally the tank ph is 8.4. That’s awful. I mean even 8.0 I could stomach. But this is awful.

Advice? Thank you. I’m truly almost there...