2 Clowns, New Home, Greying Out

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FranM
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2 Clowns, New Home, Greying Out

Post by FranM » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:11 pm

I just moved two clowns and two yo-yos in addition to four silver dollars from a 55 to a 120.

The clowns were always agreeable with each other and always displayed deep black shiny stripes. Since they’ve been in the new home with a new hiding place in addition to the old one, I have lackluster clowns.

I know they should be kept in groups but in the 55 that didn’t seem to be an issue, nor did I want to crowd the tank more.

Sooo in your experienced opinions is it an issue of numbers or hiding places? I have checked all water parameters and everything is wonderful.

Thanks.
Fran

ChocolateCake123
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Re: 2 Clowns, New Home, Greying Out

Post by ChocolateCake123 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:45 am

Definitely a number issue. Get at least 4 or 5 more

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redshark1
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Re: 2 Clowns, New Home, Greying Out

Post by redshark1 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:09 pm

Could be a matter of patience. They can take weeks to adjust to new surroundings. At least you can see them.
6 x Clown Loaches all 30 years of age on 01.01.2024, largest 11.5", 2 large females, 4 smaller males, aquarium 6' x 18" x 18" 400 ltr/90 uk gal/110 US gal. approx.

FranM
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Re: 2 Clowns, New Home, Greying Out

Post by FranM » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:33 pm

Thanks, Choc and Redshark.

I really don’t want to get more loaches as I like having a big tank with less maintenance. Would just like a dozen colorful tetras and a pair of small cichlids. Done. However, if the clowns don’t improve by mid September I guess I will have no choice but to add more.

And yes they are out and about all day.

Thank you.

Bas Pels
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Re: 2 Clowns, New Home, Greying Out

Post by Bas Pels » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:56 am

2 is Always a bad number, then there is a boss and a lousy one

Furhter, I would nover recommend the combination of loaches and cichlids. Both have their agression, but they will not undertand the other, resulting in many avoideble fights

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redshark1
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Re: 2 Clowns, New Home, Greying Out

Post by redshark1 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:25 pm

I agree with this good point Bas Pels. Cichlids are territorial. Clown Loaches are not. I have kept both together and found Clown Loaches cause Cichlids much stress by not respecting the ideas of territory and personal space. Therefore, I will not keep them together again.
6 x Clown Loaches all 30 years of age on 01.01.2024, largest 11.5", 2 large females, 4 smaller males, aquarium 6' x 18" x 18" 400 ltr/90 uk gal/110 US gal. approx.

FranM
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Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: 2 Clowns, New Home, Greying Out

Post by FranM » Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:47 pm

Hmmmm.

I have kept angels and loaches before and it seemed ok. And, they were in a 55. Now I have the 120. I know cichlids seek out their caves and if there are young they will defend. Yet, you still feel cichlids aren’t a good idea?

I’ve only observed aggression between the two clowns once, a year ago.

Finally, you think I have too much water flow? I have Fluval FX6 and an Aquaclear 110 temporarily. They are at opposite ends of the aquarium.

I really appreciate the input. Thank you.

ChocolateCake123
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Re: 2 Clowns, New Home, Greying Out

Post by ChocolateCake123 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:20 pm

Perhaps. I kept my loaches with 0 flow and they did well, so maybe remove a Fluval?
Also, the loaches may be able to defend themselves. My cousin had an 800 lite tank, and in it he kept 1 bluegill, 6 clown loaches, 6 yoyo loaches, and assorted Malawi cichlids.

FranM
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Re: 2 Clowns, New Home, Greying Out

Post by FranM » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:12 pm

Redshark felt the loaches were a nuisance to his cichlids and stressed the cichlids out because the loaches kept invading their space.

Choc, the FX6 is going nowhere and the HOB is there while the FX6 is cycling.

NancyD
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Re: 2 Clowns, New Home, Greying Out

Post by NancyD » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:57 pm

Give them some time to adjust, Fran. You know you need a few more & couple hiding spots.

I'm not a fan of loach/cichlid tanks; different continents, different territory needs...I thought your silver dollars were enough for this tank, beside more loaches, of course.
Image

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redshark1
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Re: 2 Clowns, New Home, Greying Out

Post by redshark1 » Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:56 am

On the subject of flow my aquarium currently has a turnover of 9 times an hour. I have seen recommendations of between 5 and 10 times an hour.

I have experimented with flow and suspect that it is possible to subjectively have too much flow.

I found that above this range My Clown Loaches were not comfortable sitting out in the open and they hid away more.

This I believe was because the current did not allow them to lounge around on the gravel without it influencing their position. Its only a theory of mine but I hope this helps.

Also, the bigger pump I tried was correspondingly noisier and caused more vibration which could possibly have influenced the fish.
6 x Clown Loaches all 30 years of age on 01.01.2024, largest 11.5", 2 large females, 4 smaller males, aquarium 6' x 18" x 18" 400 ltr/90 uk gal/110 US gal. approx.

Bas Pels
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Re: 2 Clowns, New Home, Greying Out

Post by Bas Pels » Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:54 am

With regard to flow, I don't think there is hardly any tank with too much flow. There are possibly a few with more flow than the fish require, but that is something different than too much flow.

Almost all loaches come from fast flowing rivers. I once read a definition for fast flowing, that is 1.25 meters a second. Most likely it was originally 4 feet a second, but that does not matter much

An Eheim pro II, pumping 950 liters an hour through 18 mm hoses manages to get precisely that flow through the hoses. NOT in the tank, but in the plumbing. Assuming the Eheim does not have any balast - that is the canister is empty and the hoses are unbent

Obviously, we will not manage the required 1,25 meters a second in order to allow us to say we have fast flowing water in our tanks.

The other extreme are the lakes, such as Lake Malawi. These lakes do not have any flow in any direction, but due do weather, the water will move a lot around the rocks. These lakes have quite surf. In fact, keeping Malawi cichlids you best turn the water 3 times an hour around, or more. The fish will not mind the flow.

Angelfish come from the Amazon river, which does not flow a lot. But even they will not mind a turnaround of 5 times an hour,, not even in a large tank. However, if you keep them in a tank of 2 meters length, with a turnaround of 5 times, the average flow will be 10 meters an hour. I can tell you, the Amazon river does flow more.

Many fishes like to have a lot of flow. Take, for instance, a few sworttails and give them a tank with a turnaround of of 10 times an hour. They will love it

FranM
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Re: 2 Clowns, New Home, Greying Out

Post by FranM » Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:51 am

NancyD wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:57 pm
Give them some time to adjust, Fran. You know you need a few more & couple hiding spots.

I'm not a fan of loach/cichlid tanks; different continents, different territory needs...I thought your silver dollars were enough for this tank, beside more loaches, of course.
Hey Nancy.

And thank you to Redshark and Bas for your input. I consider everything from reputable, experienced
fishkeepers.

The reason I’m considering dwarf cichlids is because 1. I have a big enough space. 2. I always wanted to keep them. 3. My water parameters fit their needs (Gh is 3-4) too. I have the clowns’ original cave in the back corner of the aquarium but they don’t use it. And I chose that space because it was the same side as the water flow so the flow would be facing the opposite way, plus it was hidden behind lush (fake) greens. However, they are always upfront and go into the cichlid rock cave I bought. I’m going to switch places with the two caves. I’m not planning on getting anymore silver dollars—only have the four.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to add a dozen tetras of some sort eventually and a few more cherry barbs because I still have the one femal that just won’t quit! At least ten years!

So if you feel that the dwarf cichlids, even though the water parameters work and I have a big enough space, STILL should not be considered, then I probably won’t do it. Was also thinking gourami but I know their waters are still. Once the HOB is off, the water movement will decrease.

Thank you all.

Fran

Bas Pels
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Re: 2 Clowns, New Home, Greying Out

Post by Bas Pels » Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:46 pm

Please consider what I wrote

I did not write about chemistry, I assumed that would not be the problem -= both dwarf cichlids and clowns prefer the same water, although many dwarf cichlids prefer it a bit cooler

The problem is behaviour. And a 150 gallon, that would be 600 liters, tank would, most likely, not measure over 1.5 meters or 5 feet.

That is, too small in order for the fishes to avoid each other.

I have a 4 meters (13 feet) tank, and ALL fishes are sometimes on the left, sometimes on the right. This tank is therefore still too small to combine cichlids and Botia. Because of their behaviour

FranM
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Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: 2 Clowns, New Home, Greying Out

Post by FranM » Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:54 pm

I’ll go with what you all feel.

I’ve kept clowns with angels before—angels who have laid eggs in the tank numbers of times. I never regretted keeping them together.

Thanks.

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