Doing what I can for my fish—Video

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FranM
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Doing what I can for my fish—Video

Post by FranM » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:42 pm

In an effort to be certain my fish are getting enough oxygen, I purchased a Hydor Koralia 3rd Gen to provide substantial surface agitation. I’m hoping I’m making this work in conjunction with the filter output and not causing crashing water movements. I’ve aimed the output hoses down and forward towards the front glass and the circulation is facing the output hoses above and hopefully helping to push the water to the front of the glass and back up.

Stupid question—is there still a significant oxygen exchange even with the snugly fitted glass covers?

I just took the filter apart. Media and motor. Impeller looked good. Sand was negligible. A little slime but that’s it. I was very pleased. And I didn’t get aggravated or run into any problems so that’s the best!

Here’s video: I spoke in it too so please listen and advise.

Thanks.

https://vimeo.com/304933938

fossphur
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:26 am

Re: Doing what I can for my fish—Video

Post by fossphur » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:46 am

I think your tank is looking super good really, it looks like a good amount of surface agitation and I think there should still be ventilation into your tank even with the lids on, I don't know of any tank that has a super dangerously snug lid. The best indication of if your set up is right is if your fish are behaving normally so time will tell if they are happy with how it is now or not. For my tank, I started noticing fin damage in some of my fish when I had too much flow from my wavemaker, I swapped to a smaller model and all was well, the split fins healed up within days. I think if you put the circulation pump higher it will get noisy! I don't know if you can change the angle? In my tank I have it on the back wall at the top left, pointing diagonally to the right so that the flow hits the front glass of the tank about 1/4 of the way along. The flow kind of splits in all directions so it keeps the sand at the front of my tank pretty clear of debris, and because it has to change direction from hitting the glass the flow isn't so strong I don't think. I get kind of a circular effect but also some turbulence in the left of the tank and it seems to push the water nicely to the main filter inlet.

FranM
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: Doing what I can for my fish—Video

Post by FranM » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:00 am

Thanks, Fossphur for watching and replying.

I’ve since added 11 small cherry barbs and they seem to do well when they stay away from the direct line of fire though they seem to go into a lot too.

Yes the direction of the power head does turn. It’s actually magnetic but the cord is so tight that I’m not getting the full range I should out of it. I’m starting to think that if I did put it to the other side along the same flow line as the filter output, I may have more manageability because I won’t be as worried about the cord showing in the corner.

Again thank you. I appreciate your comments.

Fran

loachnoob
Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:37 pm

Re: Doing what I can for my fish—Video

Post by loachnoob » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:53 pm

FranM, a perfectly timed post by you. Ironically I logged on tonight to ask the very similar question to the one you're posing - at least regarding the addition of a circulator.

Since your topic is similar, I'll pass on posting a new topic and just be active in this one. I simply was going to post whether or not I should add a current generator, SPECIFICALLY almost the exact one you purchased! :lol: I've recently added a nice school of denison barbs to my tank and while at a LFS today their show tank (which has adult denisons in it) exhibited how much they loved cruising in the flow! I have a 125, any recommendations on the size i should purchase for my 125g? I was considering an undersized Hydor Koralia 600. I still want some dead areas for fish to chill at, but I have a lot of structure that should give the fish those calm areas.

To answer your question regarding oxygen transfer I feel I'm fairly well versed in answering it since I work in the realm of lakes and ponds and much of that knowledge crosses over to home aquariums - just on a smaller scale. Oxygen dissolves into water readily, specifically at the atmosphere water interface (the top of your tanks water.) So long as there is the slightest gap between the glass and the water, atmospheric oxygen is dissolving into your water. The second you close that gap, say if the tank is too full, you'll get no added benefit from the current/ripples.

Diffusers (stones attached to air pumps) really work the same way. From a visual stand point most people assume the tiny bubbles are adding dissolved oxygen. But the reality is that lower oxygen leveled water is simply rising from the bottom, being exposed to our atmosphere, and having oxygen dissolved into it. One of the reasons people see fish gasp at the surface when oxygen levels are low is because the fish are hardwired to know that oxygen content is richest at the top. Think of the bubbles as nothing more than an elevator in the grand scheme of things and through displacement are moving oxygen rich water down to the bottom. The ripples on the surface caused by it, similarly to the circulator, increase you're tanks surface area dramatically and consequently more o2 is brought into the water. A good example would be if you took a piece of paper and crumpled it up and tried to lay it back out flat. From a 2 dimensional stand point it's going to be smaller, but from a 3 dimensional standpoint you could fit more wrinkled paper into the same "flat" space. Since the surface of area of your tank is static, by causing ripples (think of wrinkles in paper) you're increasing the surface area thus more oxygen for your fish!

Water, dependent largely on temperature and biological demand (more so bactiera) does have a finite amount of oxygen that can be dissolved into it via the atmosphere. With pure oxygen you can cause super saturation which can actually cause problems for fish if someone was trying to get really technical. In our fish production operations (speaking from my professional world) we have to be cognizant of this. I can't imagine someone trying this in a tank scenario - but people do do it with CO2 injectors on the opposite side of the spectrum.

I should also add here, that moving compressed atmospheric air to cause water movement/oxygen transference via the aforementioned elevator effect is FAR more efficient than trying to move water via a prop/impeller as do the circulators. But in the world of aquariums, wattage usage is minimal since we're working with a few gallons of water as opposed to millions of gallons so we shouldn't worry about that much.

Lastly, gorgeous tank! Thank you for sharing! I have a digital dissolved oxygen probe and for fun and science I'll check my DO pre-circulator and post-circulator to give you an idea if they really make any difference at all regarding dissolved oxygen. My assumption was the addition of the circulator was more so to mimic a natural environment for our inhabitants while simultaneously increasing our mechanical filtration ability to gather fish poop :lol:

NancyD
Posts: 1391
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:17 pm
Location: SF bay area,US

Re: Doing what I can for my fish—Video

Post by NancyD » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:16 pm

Well, I haven't "heard" Fran's video, our tv is on. But hopefully I'll hear soon & have opinions on both her & loachnoob's oxygen thoughts. An interesting topic!
Image

FranM
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: Doing what I can for my fish—Video

Post by FranM » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:18 pm

Loachnoob thank you so much for your contribution. This helps me and I hope you get feedback too. I haven’t gotten much as you can see. It’s a busy time of year. I must say I do post in Fishlore forums too. I get more responses but not all quality replies like I get here (thinking of Nancy and Loachloach). But that forum is much more active.

So yes I have plenty of space between glass cover and water surface so I won’t worry about that concern anymore of the glass being too airtight.

I can tell you what I am currently struggling with now and that is getting the heaters to drop their temp. That’s probably a topic for a new post.

I would love to see the reading of the oxygen levels pre and post agitator and finally I think Denison barbs are my favorite but I didn’t want to over-bio-load my tank. So I went for the Cherries instead. Thank you for the compliments too!

Also one other thought. Would high temps and low oxygen kill delicate anaerobic bacteria or at least hinder it? How about just high temp and good oxygen exchange?

Fran

NancyD
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Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:17 pm
Location: SF bay area,US

Re: Doing what I can for my fish—Video

Post by NancyD » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:02 pm

Higher temps = less oxygen
Image

FranM
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: Doing what I can for my fish—Video

Post by FranM » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:12 pm

Yes higher temps less oxygen. And would that kill off anaerobic bacteria?

loachnoob
Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:37 pm

Re: Doing what I can for my fish—Video

Post by loachnoob » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:36 pm

I really doubt the higher water temps will effect aerobic or anaerobic bacteria negatively, if anything it'll likely make them more active, depending on species. I would wage most of the bacteria that live in our tanks love warmer water. The more active the bacteria the higher their consumption of desired materials is.

For Christmas I'm getting myself a Gen 3 1950 circulator and adding another Aquaclear 110 - I'll post dissolved o2 stats before and after!

loachnoob
Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:37 pm

Re: Doing what I can for my fish—Video

Post by loachnoob » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:38 pm

Fran, if i missed, what Gen 3 did you get?

FranM
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: Doing what I can for my fish—Video

Post by FranM » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:31 pm

Loachnoob, I got the smallest one, 1350, Gen 3. The reason being is I don’t have a long aquarium. 4 x 2 x 2. I certainly think it’s enough because I have it at the surface and it is breaking water at least halfway across the top and making waves halfway across. I think that is sufficient oxygen exchange, what do you think?

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