Levamisole

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Basil
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Levamisole

Post by Basil » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:44 pm

2 days ago I purchased 6 more Botia Darios to join my lone surviving one after my disastrous water issues.
They are all doing well.
However, I do want to worm all with the levamisole (including my sids as I have a couple that look thinner to me and Prazipro hasn’t seemed to help).

The directions say to leave it in the tank for 48 hours and than put charcoal back in the filter and do a large WC. But they also mention to only dose for 24 hours for sensitive species.

So would either the sids or Darios fall under “sensitive species”?

How do all of you worm with the levamisole?

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ch.koenig
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Re: Levamisole

Post by ch.koenig » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:09 pm

Hi Basil
Many loaches are very sensitive, some extremly. I have lost some the last 50 years. If they are scaleless you should be at standby during application. Levamisole is strong stuff, not sold round here. I made only use once and lost more specimen than by worms ever. On import there is no application without diagnosis. And the specialist is still at search of worms.
Thin specimen: thats a problem you can't solve with medicine. It's certainly not a problem of worms. As antibiotics won't work either it's still a mistery. Looking at the situation in some export stations: stress, no food, overpopulation, lack of fresh 0water. The digestive section breaks down after weeks or months, parasites and bacteries follow.
For sure, as soon they are in a well "packed" tank at home.
Cheers Charles

Basil
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Location: Maryland

Re: Levamisole

Post by Basil » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:34 pm

Thanks Charles.
That does make sense. Maybe I should hold off then. 3 of the 4 sids that I lost did get skinny and stop eating but as you explained it may have not been more stress than worms. The replacements I purchased were from the same group and are of great weight and activity. The same for the Darios. And both groups are eating very well. Hmm, so this does give me reason to pause a bit.

NancyD
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Re: Levamisole

Post by NancyD » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:24 am

Basil, did you already buy levamisole? I've used without issues a few times with botia-type loaches like yours. I dosed half in the "full" dose & 12 hours later added the rest if there doesn't seem to be any issues (there were none). Upped every 12 hours to full dose for 48 hours. Gradual water changes to remove it. Repeated after 2 or 3 weeks later. Since the loaches didn't have any signs it may have been unneeded, but I was concerned about introducing parasites into an established tank. I'm not sorry I did it, unlike Charles' experiences.

I also have flubendazole (NOT fenbendazole) I've only used once or twice; dosed the same way...I'm not sure 1 was more effective than the other except against camallanus (sp?) worms, flubendazole worked better, but I still lost fish (stiphodon gobies). Quarantine fish if your can in a separate tank & observe them for 4+ weeks. I know you had water problems...
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Basil
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Re: Levamisole

Post by Basil » Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:13 am

Thank you Nancy.
I did purchase both levamisole and flubendazole. The flubendazole is coming from the UK so I haven’t gotten it yet.

I may hold off on the Darios for now. They all look good and are eating; even giving the barbs a run for the money for the food. I did opt to put them in my established 75 gallon and not quarantine. They also had been at my one LFS for at least 8 weeks. So really hoping all goes well!

It’s specifically one of the sids that I’m worried looks a bit thin although it is still active and I think, eating. So I think I’ll do your regime for those. It’s so much easier to do a lot of water changes on the 10 g quarantine that the sids are in versus the 75g.

I’ve temporarily solved my water issues by purchasing RO water from my small LFS and adding Seachem Equilibrium. The KH is still low at 2, but the ph in the tanks has been stable at 6.6. We are researching RO/DI units so eventually I won’t need to haul water.

I have just plants in a 30 g quarantine also right now. But I’m also going to use that tank to play around with adding crushed coral to the filter to raise the KH a little.
My small LFS gal said she uses it and it nicely brings her ph to a steady 7.0. Which makes sense as it acts as a buffer and once it binds all the extra hydrogen molecules, it should stay at a neutral ph. But I’ve also read accounts on line where people have reported raising the ph higher than 7.

NancyD
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Re: Levamisole

Post by NancyD » Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:21 am

Yep, I've done the crushed coral thing & it worked at the time. But that's not the whole water picture...be careful & test.

You can always drug them if you think you need to, just for a larger tank volume. More expensive, but may not be needed. Good luck!

Skinny loaches are always a concern. They may be young & small or have internal parasites & need treatment...it's very hard to say & no way to be sure. We do the best we can...Observe & wait; or treat & hope for the best.

Can you post a pic? Maybe we can help...
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Basil
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Re: Levamisole

Post by Basil » Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:14 am

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Umm, hopefully it isn’t upside down again lol!
So last night I got home from work (midnight as I work second shift) and turned on my room lights. They illuminate tje tank a bit and I was watching the Darios. I thought a couple of them looked pale and a couple were doing a sort of loach dance where they would come back down to the sand and look like they were flashing against the sand.
So I freaked out a bit and went ahead and added a half dose of levamisole. However, I didn’t take the charcoal out of the canister but it is over 30 days old.
This morning they all look normal and were eating so I don’t know if I was just that I was looking at them after being in the dark for 8 hours as my barbs are pale after being in the dark.
So I did a 20% WC 5 days ago. Im doing a 30% this morning. I’ll remove the charcoal.
And my plan was to add a half dose at about 12 pm. Hope that sounds ok.
So since I added a half dose last night but am doing a partial WC now should I go ahead and add another half dose at midnight tonight? Or maybe a quarter dose?
I know I screwed it up a bit by dosing last night.
Thanks for your help!
Oh and I am treating the sids definitely as I’ve lost a couple after they got skinny.
So to make sure I followed your directions: I’ll do a half dose for the sids. Then a half dose 12 hours later. Then do I wait 24 hours to start doing water changes? Or wait 48 hours after the second half dose?

NancyD
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Re: Levamisole

Post by NancyD » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:05 am

Sorry Basil, I don't quite remember the levamisole dosing protocol. I "think" it's in the health forum as a sticky at the top. It's been a long time since I did it...As I recall (& it may be wrong), it's dose half then 12 hours later dose half...Then 48 hours later vacuum well & change water. 2 weeks later do it all again. Again, I'm not positive, but flubendazole dosing is similar. Please check!!

I would dose that Dario (& all of them) with either flubendazole OR levamisole. It looks skinny, but not yet to the "scary" point. How big is it? Does it eat well? Behave normally? Interact with the others? Very young loaches often look more slender, they need more frequent small feedings & water changes to grow well, they're babies!
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Basil
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Re: Levamisole

Post by Basil » Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:15 am

Thanks again!
The levamisole that I purchased had the dosage. I gave the second half dose yesterday and will do water changes starting tomorrow.
They are about 1 3/4 “ +/-. All are very active and eating well. I feed them twice a day and do a meal of frozen brine shrimp/bloodworms every other day. I have also been feeding a good quality flake, micro pellets, and algae wafers.
It’s a bit of a challenge to feed them enough without the barbs completely engorging themselves lol!
I plan on also dosing the sids tank today. They are also active and eating well.

NancyD
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Re: Levamisole

Post by NancyD » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:47 pm

Except for forgetting to remove the carbon, it sounds like you're doing very well by your loaches. I would act like the carbon removed all the levamisole before it could work & redose as if you hadn't treated them at all...Unless your carbon was 2 or 3 weeks old, then it might not matter much. Carbon adsorbs only until its many tiny surfaces are clogged, after that it just becomes like any other filter media; a place for bacteria & a bit of mechanical debris removal.

I see you're like me in offering many different foods. No fussy eaters allowed! But also less chance of missing nutrients from a limited diet.

What's your water change amount & frequency? The more the better for growing young fish. When I grew up young discus I did 50% or more every day, or almost, but they were fed 5 or 6 times a day too. It was a ton of work! But I change 40% every week or so with all my heavily planted tanks these days. I see a leaf (vallisneria?), plants help & grow "micro-critters" that fish feed on too. The plants didn't seem to be affected by worming meds. Do you test for nitrate etc? That's the best way to tell what's going on for the most part...but I'm a very infrequent tester, just change lots of water as often as in reasonable.
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Basil
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Re: Levamisole

Post by Basil » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:21 pm

That’s a crypt balansae in the photo. Also have amazon swords, crypt wendti, crypt willisi, and java moss in that tank.
I do a 30% water change once a week and my nitrates stay under 20.
I spent way too much time today watching these guys. They are active and out and about. I originally was waiting for the store to get in the Histrionicas. But I love these guys!

NancyD
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Re: Levamisole

Post by NancyD » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:08 pm

I would up your WCs to, say, 40+% once a week or 30+% twice /week if you can. Your nitrate level is fine: but your loaches are young & lots clean water is important for their growth. You can cut that back as they grow...eventually. To me, there's no such thing as "too many" WCs for young fish.


Good luck! & happy holidays.
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Basil
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Location: Maryland

Re: Levamisole

Post by Basil » Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:02 am

I will do that!

It’s also probably a good practice since I’m feeding more and there may be more waste than is optimal.

Happy Holidays to you also!

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