Videos. Cyst bursting. Silver Dollar (lives with loaches)

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FranM
Posts: 457
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Videos. Cyst bursting. Silver Dollar (lives with loaches)

Post by FranM » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:44 pm

No one checks the freshwater forum anymore and for those of you who do you continue to check in regularly on the loach form, I would like to share something I find extremely interesting and hopefully you will too.

I did post about the Silver dollar on the other forum around a month ago I would say. Long story short after Christmas, a particular Silver dollar of approximately 9 to 10 years old developed a lump on its side. After doing some research, and posting on another forum that is active and discussed multiple freshwater species, it seems to be that this fish has a terminal lump and that I should just keep the water conditions as pristine as possible and then decide what to do if it got bigger and if it affected the fish’s swimming, etc.

Over the last couple of weeks I have noticed that the lump has been changing in size and shape. A couple of days ago it looks like the lump took on a dimple. Then, the lump came to a head like a pimple. Finally, it has opened up completely and is exposing… Something! It’s like the body wants it expelled.

I don’t expect anyone to explain to me what it is and what the prognosis is, as I had this fish dead and buried a good month ago. And yet it eats and it comes out when I sit in front of the tank thoughit stays behind the plant for the rest of the day. I don’t know what to make of it but again, I find it interesting enough that I would like to post some videos of the progression of the lump/cyst from late December until today. Thanks. Fran.

PS: I just finished a water change and the fish is definitely more active while this is happening. Interestingly it is clearly noticeable that the foreign thing in the body is coming out even more. So as the fish is more active it is expelling whatever it is. I’m going to try to get another picture or video right now so you can see the difference a matter of minutes made. Now I’m worried about the gaping hole that will be left and infection setting in! Or if the fresh will be enticing to other fish. :|

https://vimeo.com/309790069

https://vimeo.com/316680775

https://vimeo.com/317115385

https://vimeo.com/317512375

https://vimeo.com/317527500

*********************IT CAME OFF DURING A FEEDING!!!

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Loachloach
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Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:11 pm

Re: Videos. Cyst bursting. Silver Dollar (lives with loaches)

Post by Loachloach » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:14 pm

Hi Fran, it must be a nightmare watching your fish like that.

A few points I have which you might want to have a look at:

ULCERS

**Refers to open sores on the fish's body. Usually caused from the bacterium Vibrio that forms a lump on the fish's skin and eventually hemorrahages. The ulceration gives the appearance of one or more round eruptions of the skin, with red abscesses or red edges around the ulcer.

Some more random link explaining possible causes but I am sure there is more if you search for ulcers.

https://www.pondexperts.ca/pond-advice- ... -goldfish/

FranM
Posts: 457
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: Videos. Cyst bursting. Silver Dollar (lives with loaches)

Post by FranM » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:25 pm

Thanks, Loach!! This has been stressful and there’s no one to help me with it.

I don’t think it’s an ulcer because it’s a gaping hole now. You don’t see any redness or pus. I did add salt, guiltily. It must burn awfully.

I am lucking out because we have today and Monday off from school. So at least I get to observe this entire weekend.

NancyD
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Location: SF bay area,US

Re: Videos. Cyst bursting. Silver Dollar (lives with loaches)

Post by NancyD » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:48 pm

That is strange! But sometimes "infections" get "walled off" by the body & eventually "resolve" themselves by working their way to the skin surface & out. I've seen that in people & birds, but not fish.

I would change water often (yeah, that again!). I don't see redness or ulceration, so that's good. Salt likely an OK treatment for now.

At ~10 years old, your fish are aging & stuff can happen or eventually "resolve" after years of a low level problem or old injury. I'd consider an antibiotic if the area becomes red, but I'm not sure which 1 to suggest, maybe a 1-2 punch for both gram negative & gram positive, like Maracin 1 & 2...but WAIT, change water & see before doing that.
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FranM
Posts: 457
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: Videos. Cyst bursting. Silver Dollar (lives with loaches)

Post by FranM » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:59 pm

Hi Nancy.

Yes, definitely sticking to water changes only and will continue that as long as I don’t see anything funky. The fish came out to chow down again tonight. I’m afraid the others may sense an open wound but it hasn’t happened yet...I have nothing to lose I guess. Pretty interesting case though, right? I just don’t want to see it get harassed. So far, hiding for over a month now, it hasn’t gotten picked on.....

NancyD
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Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:17 pm
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Re: Videos. Cyst bursting. Silver Dollar (lives with loaches)

Post by NancyD » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:23 pm

Well, I prefer a low level of intervention with old fish especially. They, like people, etc., eventually die of "something". We can often only help them on that road as best we can...& it sounds like you're doing all you can. Keep it up, & good luck. Your fish may well live a longer life with your good care...but 10 years is getting up there in time. There's only so much you can do...
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FranM
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Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: Videos. Cyst bursting. Silver Dollar (lives with loaches)

Post by FranM » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:43 pm

Thank you, Nancy.

FranM
Posts: 457
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: Videos. Cyst bursting. Silver Dollar (lives with loaches)

Post by FranM » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:49 pm

Boy do I have a story! I looked up aquatic specialists in my area and there is a man who works out of a local emergency vet clinic. But I know it would be a least $100 plus just to walk in the door and I’d have to net the fish and take it there. I found him on Facebook and sent a message and asked for help. He had an office staff get back to me and he called me himself. He says it could very well be an abscess caused by an infection and the cells attacked it and now that it took care of it the body was ready to get rid of it, thus the abscess. Of course it would need to be seen under a microscope. If it has bacteria it’s an abscess but if it only shows abnormal cells then it’s a cancer. He’s going to be away for 10 days. He says if the wound looks worse then to use an over-the-counter medication for gram negative bacteria. For now, he says to watch it and do nothing. The salt was good. He also said fish are resilient and it can very well heal itself. WOW!!

Loachloach
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Re: Videos. Cyst bursting. Silver Dollar (lives with loaches)

Post by Loachloach » Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:01 am

Hopefully the fish heals itself. I know its been said, but I'd step up some water changes big time, at least within the next week while the wound is closing back. You may want to consider some daily water changes....or whatever you can manage, the more the better.

If you're to use bacterial meds, be careful with the rest of the fish plus biological filtration.

NancyD
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Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:17 pm
Location: SF bay area,US

Re: Videos. Cyst bursting. Silver Dollar (lives with loaches)

Post by NancyD » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:22 pm

Well, it seems your vet is on the same page as LL & I are on. WCs, WCs!!! They can't hurt & may well help.

Like I said, do what you can in a reasonable way; that's all you can do. I don't see a need to invest $100+ on what may be end of life care. Fish get old, get cancer, infections or whatever. Do not beat yourself up on this, you're doing all you can!
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FranM
Posts: 457
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: Videos. Cyst bursting. Silver Dollar (lives with loaches)

Post by FranM » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:05 am

Yes I have been really diligent with the water changes especially over the last few months. I just found it interesting that the fish could have a benign abscess and hopefully that is all it was. I have some updated pictures as well.

https://postimg.cc/gallery/kfpefqkm/

NancyD
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Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:17 pm
Location: SF bay area,US

Re: Videos. Cyst bursting. Silver Dollar (lives with loaches)

Post by NancyD » Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:51 pm

The black color is concerning to me, (necrotic tissue?). But it looks better...Good luck Fran!
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FranM
Posts: 457
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: Videos. Cyst bursting. Silver Dollar (lives with loaches)

Post by FranM » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:34 pm

I don’t like it either. I don’t know what’s gonna happen. I can only keep observing.

NancyD
Posts: 1437
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:17 pm
Location: SF bay area,US

Re: Videos. Cyst bursting. Silver Dollar (lives with loaches)

Post by NancyD » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:56 pm

Any change in the black area yet, Fran? I know it hasn't been long... but if any more falls off (or out), I'd vacuum ASAP. I don't know if fish might eat it or if it might release whatever it may be into the water but keep a close eye on this.
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FranM
Posts: 457
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: Videos. Cyst bursting. Silver Dollar (lives with loaches)

Post by FranM » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:23 pm

https://postimg.cc/gallery/3dzw9dwjq/

This is what it looks like as of today. I agree, I wouldn’t want any of the other fish to pick it up. That’s why I observe daily and hope that if anything happens I’m home for it.

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